The solution to your protein powder dilemma is here.
Every fitness buff enjoys a good protein shake. They are simple to make and convenient for people on the go.
Unfortunately, most protein shakes include a downside, depending on which diet you follow: vegans avoid powders with whey in the ingredients so that rules out a bunch of options for them. Meanwhile, keto lovers often end up with digestive issues from inferior quality whey in the protein powders. Many people, including some keto followers, have a sensitivity to whey or dairy ingredients. Hence, a whey protein powder causes them to have explosive diarrhea, stomach cramps, and other unpleasant issues.
Whey is not the only problem. The protein powder industry is a minefield of questionable, troublesome ingredients – from sweeteners to emulsifiers – preservatives, sugars, plant sources, caffeine (or other stimulants), how the powder is processed – there are so many traps out there from product to product.
This is why the founders of Bioptimizers – Wade Lightheart and Matt Gallant – decided to go “all in” to bring to the market a protein powder like no other.
In this episode, you will get a sneak peek at the formation of this tasty, potent protein powder that is a perfect fit for vegans – wait till you hear what’s in Protein Breakthrough! And keto lovers dealing with intestinal overload, bloating, distended stomach, and other digestive issues will be blown away by the ingredients, including the incredible source of chocolate in the shake that is super healthy and satisfies your sweet tooth.
Wade & Matt are leaders in the supplemental space, and each has an impressive resume in the health and fitness field. Wade is a former bodybuilder who competed in the Mr. Universe competition. He has been a vegan bodybuilder now for twenty years. Matt has a degree in kinesiology. He is a strength and conditioning coach and a serial entrepreneur who built 13 companies in 20 years.
In this podcast, we cover:
- Wade’s 20-year “dark journey” to find the perfect protein powder recipe
- Wade’s story – from bodybuilding champion to “a bag of crap” who then became vegan and rose back up to successful fitness entrepreneur
- Wade’s dietary history and Matt’s dietary history
- Why both Matt and Wade can’t wait for Protein Breakthrough
- The potent protein power of hemp seeds
- Why pumpkin seeds make a fantastic ingredient for this protein powder
- Why a diet low in enzymes is highly detrimental to your health
- The extraordinary quality of chocolate in Protein Breakthrough
- The food science behind the emulsifiers in this new protein powder
- How Matt picked the perfect sweetener for Protein Breakthrough
Why Wade’s Mission is to Help People Overcome Poor Digestion
For Wade to become a three-time Canadian national Bodybuilding Champion and competitor for Mr. Universe required some severe self-discipline. Wade had that in spades.
But what Wade didn’t have back in those days was knowledge about digestion. He was eating a lacto-vegetarian diet. That was fine. Whey protein shakes became a big part of his training routine and required for him to build muscle mass naturally.
As Wade was slamming back a ton of whey, the problem was his digestive capabilities were limited in processing all of that whey protein. He hoped that the whey would aid in his workout recovery. Instead, all that whey protein was creating “a sickly layer of black, dark, rotting sludge” building upon his intestinal walls. He didn’t realize that his protein shake of choice was feeding the “bad bacteria” in his gut, where they multiplied and caused him so much trouble, he became “a marshmallow man.” Wade suffered from brain fog as his leaky gut allowed the sludge to enter his bloodstream.
After his Mr. Universe competition, Wade gained 42 pounds of fat and water. This drastic drop in fitness slammed him psychologically.
Wade knows how practical and life-changing a protein powder can be. Now, he is off-the-charts excited about what Protein Breakthrough offers those who need high-quality, meatless protein.
Matt Says this “beautiful” ingredient is arguably the closest food to “perfection”…
During this revealing conversation, Matt recalls Wade’s introduction to hemp protein. This was a game-changer for Wade as a bodybuilder.
Back then, Vancouver, Canada, was an early hotbed for hemp. Wade also personally knew one of the “godfathers” of hemp protein – the machine’s creator that broke down those tiny hemp seeds into a powder.
Wade suddenly noticed he got more robust as an early adopter and had faster workout recoveries after using hemp protein powder. Wade was so impressed with the results, he and Matt began sharing this discovery with the athletes they were training – 15,000 worldwide – over the next four years.
Wade did not care at the time how poorly hemp seeds tasted back in those days. Fortunately, hemp processing has come a long way, along with the food science that now enables hemp seed protein to taste fantastic.
All the other ingredients in the mix together are what make Protein Breakthrough so tasty. You don’t have to swallow something that tastes like dirt anymore to get optimized results. This isn’t the early 2000s.
Protein Breakthrough is a genuinely cutting-edge product that Wade has been searching for for 20 years to find. As a vegan bodybuilder, he dreamed that advances in food technology and food science would one day create a “holy grail” protein powder that vegans would love to drink! Not just tolerate.
The time has come.
Wade’s “dark journey” is finally over.
“I feel like the guy that was searching for Shangri-La – he’s lost in the wilderness and has all these crazy adventures, and then he finally stumbles into the enchanted canyon and finds it [paradise].”
Listening to Matt and Wade passionately share from their heart is a lot of fun. Tune in, and you will quickly notice how genuine their enthusiasm is for Protein Breakthrough. Finally! A protein powder that vegans and keto lovers can both enjoy. Athletes are going to love this. Kids will request it as a snack. Mothers will be able to trust that it’s healthy. Athletes and vegetarians are going to flock to this product. And meat-eaters will throw away their whey Frankenstein shakes and embrace something truly delicious.
Tune in, save money, feel better, get stronger – this episode could change your life.
Read The Episode Transcript:
Wade Lightheart: And now the time that you've been waiting for around the world, oh, let's get ready to protein. Great. What's up, man? Wade Lightheart: You know, we're excited. You know, probably the greatest by optimizer event, certainly in our long and storied career, from my perspective is the release of protein breakthrough version 4.0, which has literally been 17 years in the making. And, you know, as a guy that is completely, absolutely 100% reliant on plant-based proteins in order to, to exist on this planet and let alone, you know, continue on my fitness goals and stuff as a, as an old ex bodybuilding geezer that I am. I mean, I, I've never been more pumped about a product in my career in fitness and health and nutrition. Matt Gallant: Let's start in the beginning. Right? So first, when, when you and I met, then I moved to Vancouver, we were hanging out you followed probably the most regimented strict, restrictive diet I have ever seen. Period. Why don't you mention and describe what you ate on a daily basis for 11 months, that Wade Lightheart: Was in the 2003. And I just was on a conversation with the famous pro bodybuilder Ben [inaudible]. And he asked me that same question. cause we had a same common element, had the same coats. It's kind of very similar career. Obviously he did much better, but it was an interesting etymology and yeah, I, I ate, this is exactly what I had because we were trying to do a meat eating mentality to a vegetarian diet. And at that time there was no plant protein. So we had to, you know, use way. so it make me a vegan. It made me a lacto vegetarian to be technical. I had 50 grams away, every meal for five meals of the day meal. One. I had that with two shredded wheat biscuits meal two, I had it with 25 mini rice cakes meal three, I had two medium potatoes in meal, number four, I had twenty-five mini rice cakes and meal, number five. Wade Lightheart: I had a small salad to go with that would just vinegar on it and salt. And I ate that way every day for a LA 11 months and stayed in, you know, I won a national championship in July of that year, starting in January and maintained a bodybuilding conditioning level from that point in July, actually earlier than that, because I won a contest in may prior to that from literally from may to November six straight months in contest conditioning, eating that many calories training at a professional bodybuilder level with no drugs, no meat, nothing. That's what it was. And you saw what I was like at that point. I mean, where it was pretty much Matt Gallant: Brain dead and he would walk in the gym and you know, I could tell there was no one home and he'd say, wait, how's it going and say, Hey man, it's just another day in paradise, bro. And he'd go about his day, train, train, like a maniac all the time you were hyper-focused. I mean, you seem like the Terminator. I mean, it's probably the best description of an avatar you had was just focused, do what it takes and no one really home. They just did the work and follow the regimen. Well, Wade Lightheart: You know, that's, I think something though that you and I both share as founders of the company in that, you know, willpower can only go so far and discipline is not something that comes natural to you. And I however, where we are, I think hyper gifted or cursed, you might look at it is that we're so mission centered and both you and I and came about this industry. I think through a very natural and benevolent way is that as personal trainers and educators, we fell in love with transforming people's lives one-on-one and seeing the difference in the carry over that. And then our lives changed after that with Dr. Brian, we'll get into that, but you and I remember specifically sitting down there that we, we, we, we made a commitment to this mission of ending physical suffering and activating awesome health or from sickness. Wade Lightheart: The superhuman is some people would like to say we've kind of sophisticated and tightened up that message over the last 20 years, but Jocko, Willink talks about it. You know, w what drives the Navy seals is is, is their commitment to the mission, no matter what, even if that results in your death. And I think where the common element that we both have is that we've shared that. And when we made our first product, which we were told was insane because it costs too much money. We'd never make any profit from it. We just said, we don't care where we're a mission-based company, not a margin based company. And that changes the whole culture that made the, the rise of the company, much slower and more pedestrian, but much more solid and sustainable. And now that it's years later, and we've got this, we're recognized as a brand and the company mission statement is in, in is inside of our web development. It's inside our customer service. It's inside our operations, our marketing, virtually everything that we do, everything that we encourage. And, and it's just an awesome thing to be mission-driven. And, you know, to be mission-driven there's consequences to it, but there's also benefits. And I think the purpose driven life, I think was a, was a book that's very famous truck stops around America, kind of indicates of the journey is far greater than the destination. Matt Gallant: And PB is no different. It's actually our most expensive. We keep actually almost every product we release the last little bit is, is progressively more expensive than the last, because we just go all in, but let's, let's regress back to 11 months. What were the consequences of eating way at that corner? Wade Lightheart: Well, you know, it's funny, cause I just got off the phone with Ben Polsky who are friends of ours, who took his body to, as a professional body builder, like 200 7,300, 300 pounds or whatever at his peak. And he said, th th there's a common element that happens. When you are trying to, I would say you surp genetics, you serve evolution because bodybuilding is the antithesis to evolutionary biology. You're trying to increase the muscle mass. You're trying to exercise in a way that stresses muscles more than stresses the system. You're trying to strip your body fat levels to levels beyond what's even healthy or functional. It is the antithesis to the two evolutionary components, which is ironic. Cause it's seen as the cosmetic ideal in the world, that's a whole other story. So the consequences was, and I didn't understand this because we didn't understand the digestive system. Wade Lightheart: We didn't understand that the limitation, if your training and exercise program is, is, is working, is in other words, you're creating a right around stimulus. You want to recover, you've got to convert the protein you're consuming. You got to digest it. You got to absorb it. You got to utilize it or transport it into the tissues that you've stimulated. And the limiting factor that happens in professional bodybuilding. And certainly at the level I was, I wasn't using drugs or anything is that your digestive capabilities is the limiting factor. You can't get the trucks to the site, right? You can't deliver it to the muscles and that limits your recovery. And so I'm pounding all this protein in hopes that this is going to aid in my recovery. But what really is going on is a sickly layer of black dark rotting. Sludge is starting to build up on my intestinal lining that I'm not aware of, and this is feeding the bad bacteria. Wade Lightheart: And one of the reasons I'm feeling brain dead is because unbeknownst to me, I've got a host of these bad bacterias, which everybody has to a certain extent that is feeding on the undigested proteins and polluting my blood system and offsetting my neurochemistry. So I'm a walking zombie because the bad guys have taken over my brain. And I'm just, I'm just in a war with the bad guys in my head every day. And just like a guy that's a Navy seal, that's behind any lines. He just keeps going. I'm just going to keep going because the mission. And then after that, when the mission got over and I, you know, came back to reality, my whole body just shut down. I gained 42 pounds of fat and water in 11 weeks. I went into, I went into, I went from Mr. Universe to Mr. Marshmallow. Wade Lightheart: I mean, I didn't look like a national champion. I looked like the stay Puft marshmallow man. And you know, and, and it, it was so devastating for me psychologically, can you combined, I had 16 years of training. I've got the best coach in the world. I've got a bunch of people of who's who in Vancouver, who are following me as an education. I get to the pinnacle of cosmetic idealists at the time. And three months later, I look like, you know, a sack of crap. And it's like, it made me question everything I thought I knew about training in diet. And you know, of course the frustration led to discovery. And so anybody that's frustrated, I think there's an opportunity side. I always say that your greatest challenge in life is divinities inspiration to find a greater kept capability or unlocked potential with inside you, if you're willing to fight through it. And that's when Dr. Bryan came into our lives. Matt Gallant: A couple of key things you said that I want to hammer home. One is, you know, when we talk about the process of nutrification, which is in our book called the biological optimization blueprint. Now the first one which we focused on with mouse, Symes is breaking down the food, you know, the macros into usable components and, you know, amylase breaks carbs down into glycogen. The proteolytic enzymes broken pro protein to amino acids, and the lipase is break down the fats to essential fatty acids. And the second piece again, is transporting through the intestinal track and you want to have a healthy intestinal trigger. Here's the good news. And by the way, we have a research team in Bosnia that is literally PhDs in this topic, in the topic of biofilm. And, you know, if you're eating the wrong things and you're, again, you're feeding the bad guys that way was describing, they will call an eyes into your intestinal track and they'll produce whatever chemicals or byproducts that they do. Matt Gallant: And some of them sometimes are bad. The other problem too potentially, is a leaky gut, which, you know, if you're not eating a good diet can happen. And now you're absorbing toxins, which can create an inflammatory response. But the third thing, which you know, is one of the reasons we're so big on enzymes is the assimilation, right? So, okay, you, you broke down the protein to amino acids. You transported the amino acids through the intestinal tract, which we use ingredients like astrocytes to help transport more through the intestinal track up to 66% more aminos, which is awesome. But that last phase where amino acids become lean body mass or the, you know, become Euro chemicals, or they become tissues for the body. You need enzymes, you know, the enzymes are constantly converting one thing into another, at 25,000 different functions. And as we talk about your journey, your protein journey today, I think that we can't have that conversation without talking about mass time. So maybe let's talk about Michael O'Brien cause that's really where that awareness came from. And talk about your journey using mass Symes as a vegetarian bodybuilder. Cause that was the first really big game changer. Wade Lightheart: Yeah. So what happened when we met Dr. Brian first and foremost, he was everything that you would hope to be as a senior citizen. You know, he was in his, probably in his seventies at the time, late seventies at the time he was super vibrant. He, he gave us a whole entire lecture and never ate anything during the entire 10 hour output lecture, which was amazing. And he was so sharp and vibrant and lively and active. You're like, well, that's what I want to be like. I want to be like him when I'm. Yeah, he had what we wanted. It was very clear. He had stuff with stuff that we had never seen before. Let's be Frank. I mean, I mean, he was a remarkable, unique individual that transformed not only our lives, but thousands of the influencers who are still alive and today and running companies and things like that. Wade Lightheart: He was a, he was a miracle worker in another, in a lot of little ways limit. I have utmost respect to him, but in his lecture, he presented to me some concepts that flew in the face of everything that we saw in Bible. In fact, I had gone to a lecture of his, a brief lecture as I was preparing for the Mr universe. And I remember going to that and he introduced these ideas and it made sense logically, but the problem was, it was fighting against kind of the bodybuilding nutrition, psychology, psychological industry, and the themes and means, and strategies that were embedded into that culture. So I was fighting the psychological culture as well as just being open enough to hear the science. But once I had screwed myself up, right, what do I have to lose? I'm sitting here as a fat marshmallow, right. Wade Lightheart: Going God, what happened? Right. So that was the, the opening that could set my ego aside enough to recognize there's something I don't know here, because the results are the results. I mean, here's the results. So he said, look, it's not, he said, he said something to me. I went to him, I told him my story, you know, I've got the best coach and all that sorta stuff. I was like, wait, you learned how to build the body from the outside. And I'm going to teach you how to build the body from the inside out. And he introduced to us a concept by a guy by the name of Dr. Edward Hal, the, the godfather of enzymatic research who took the famous Pottenger cat studies done in the thirties about what happened to cats when you fed them in enzymatically deficient diet. And he applied it to like cats, rats, rabbits, dogs, all these sort of things of what happens. Wade Lightheart: If you fed three different groups, you've fed a group enzymes, you fed one group of these animals, no enzymes. You took enzymes out of the diet. And then the other dude, you just put them on their regular diet. And what was happening is all of the enzymatically deficient animals, which is everybody today as humans. This is where the connection is humans. Today. We cook our food, we irradiate our food. We, we take all the ends up. We have no enzymes in our food, basically none, which is essential to life. Well, all of the animals by third generation develop so weird sociological behaviors. In other words, the dogs didn't act like dogs. The cats didn't act like cats. They did, they started changing their behavior. Second thing that happened is they started to develop an array of genetic base diseases, like an exponential growth of those. Wade Lightheart: And then the third thing was, is they lost the ability to procreate. And he predicted in the 1940s and fifties, when major agricultural programs started to be implemented with the industrial revolution, particularly after the war and manufacturing and the empire, he predicted that in three generations, we're going to have the same problems as the third generation cats, rabbits, dogs, et cetera. And guess what, here we are, you see fertility rates go crashing, you see exponential stuff, genetic, you know, issues that are happening and go on social media. And you're going to see a lot of strange sociological behavior. So, so, so, so that, you know, I bought into the story, but now I've actually seen the story firsthand because this was 20 years ago. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to try his enzymes. He hit, Rick helped Bernard Jensen recovered from cancer using this stuff. Wade Lightheart: He had corrected cirrhosis of the liver and prostate cancer himself, pretty radical claims. And a bunch of other people had testimonials that were far out. And they were there in the room and I believed them. They'd had no reason to lie about it. So I'm like, well, maybe it can fix my digestive issues. And so we did it, you know, I went on a completely raw food diet. I will qualify that. I went from milk, eat a cake, a Wade, eating vegetarian to a complete raw foodie that I needed. Any cook food. It follows, I, I felt better in three months, transformed my life. But in six months I got my physique back and we had started building our company at that time. And it was great. We felt great. But then as we started coaching all these other people, there was one major problem that began to reveal itself. I was only eating a little bit of protein because there was no protein to eat in anything, you know, protein degregation in plant foods. Significant Matt Gallant: Well, let's, there's a couple of key points too. Cause I remember you going through this experimentation phase, you tried soy, you tried way, like you were trying to find something that worked for you in terms of a protein and the first big win let's let's fast forward a bit because this was kind of a, the really the first breakthrough in protein breakthrough was using hemp protein. And for the people that don't know again, hemp is the seed comes from the male plant and arguably hemp protein is the world's the, or have seeds is as close as you can get to a perfect food. Central fatty acids, fiber polyphenols, the amino acid profiles. Amazing. It's a beautiful, beautiful food. And you started pounding a lot of it. So maybe talk about that. Cause I remember when we were just going crazy with hemp protein and it was a game changer. Wade Lightheart: Yeah. So one of the things, because Dr. O'brien was primarily focused on helping sick people heal. He wasn't a performance-based guy. And so I could clean out my system, which I did on his program. I got really healthy, but I noticed I couldn't recover. And that's why we were trying this program. Couldn't get it. Now I had, I had the trucks with the enzymes and the probiotics and things we're doing in the digestive system. I just didn't have any boxes to load on the trucks. I didn't have enough protein because they hadn't coached people that were training at the level that I was, that I was comforted with. And I started to see a loss in muscle tone. And I started to see that I couldn't recover at the same speed. And now I got to now, although I'm healthier on now losing my performance-based goals. Wade Lightheart: So fortunately we knew some people in the hemp industry because Vancouver, Canada at the time was a hotbed of understanding. Have we were way ahead. They were way ahead in the pot market. And they were way ahead in the hemp market. And it turned out that we knew the guy, the godfather of hemp protein, who actually created the machine that developed the nozzle that allowed the, the breaking of the seed and the converting it into a powder that you could now extract into a protein supplement. There was a problem, great breakthrough, but the problem was hemp protein. Well, it smelled like a barn and it tasted like dirt. But as a champion mindset that I had, who cares are eat dirt. I don't care how it smells. I don't care that it feels like Sandy gravel with barley going down my throat, I'm going to pay the price. And it worked. I got stronger. I could recover, but, and, and we started sharing this with our athletes. We we've coached what, oh, I think it was over 15,000 guys worldwide. Over the next four years. It was a lot of people Matt Gallant: Selling. We were selling thousands and thousands and thousands of pounds of pure organic hemp, protein, no flavor, no nothing. And again, only the most hardcore bodybuilders could go there, you know? And they did a trial free yet stacked really well with mass times, it was a game changer. But you talk about your next big discovery around plant-based proteins. Cause you know, one thing that's central to BiOptimizers is one of our core values, Tesla and grow evolve. We're always testing new things. And with the proteins, it was no, no exception. So what was the next big protein discovery that you're like, oh, this is awesome. Wade Lightheart: Well, one of the things that Dr O'Bryan taught about us was using an aspect of rice protein called tocotrienols, which have some very strong anticarcinogenic properties. And he made a product that was based on it that really tasted kind of magic, kind of like fraud. He was really great. And so that was cool. And, and Toker tree nails have a long history in health and healing and stuff. It's not something that's going to build a bunch of muscle. And then what happened is we were approached by some guys that were, it's a famous brand that was doing rice protein and they were doing fermented rice. But now that let's qualify something, there's rice protein, and then there's fermented rice protein. And there's a big difference between the two. And these guys came out with a great product. It was a fermented rice protein. Wade Lightheart: It tasted better and had a high protein content and it kind of took off and I started using it, but they ran into a problem of scale. In other words, the brand got popular and they couldn't get the same quality of rice bran fermented rice brand proteins into the protein. And they had to switch suppliers like happens with a lot of companies. They went to a cheap organization outside of the United States and they lost control of the quality management. And the product started to sit in your stomach like cement. And I'm like, I'm back to the way protein problem C Matt Gallant: There was a, you're hitting a key point, Wade, right? Which is, let's talk about just the paying attention, the simple, free available biofeedback that comes after eating the meal. Cause we were both born in Moncton, new Brunswick. And in that area, the acid test for a great restaurant was, oh, I couldn't finish my meal. And you've got this what feels like two pounds of cement in your gut feeling? And a lot of people think that that's normal. And I think as you're, as you build great digestive health and you eat really good food, you become clear, that's not the case. And boom, you were back to feeling that cement like feelings. So talk about that because I think it's a really valuable point. Wade Lightheart: Yeah. So there's a common element and I noticed I'll go back even further because I grew up a carnival, like, you know, we ain't needed every meal and when you have a high meat meal, there's a satiety factor that you don't get. Like there's a, there's a, that's different than other meals. There's a fullness feeling and there's a pleasantly full. And then there's an unpleasantly full. When I switched to a completely, when when I switched over to the whey protein, there was not the same level of feeling, but there was there was a nuance to it. There was a, a fullness, not like me, but it felt like, okay, I got enough protein in my gut. When I went to a raw food diet, I felt now I don't have any of those fullness feelings. And I almost feel that I'm on the depleted side. Like I'm not getting enough. And I have this sense that I'm not getting enough protein. Matt Gallant: Well, let's, let's, you know, and, and what happens a lot, we saw it cause we used to be pretty integrated with the raw food Canadian. Most male guys will lose 15 to 20 pounds of lean body mass in six months of going rock because they're just so amino acid deficient, you were an exception of course, because you knew that you knew how to hack Wade Lightheart: That. Yeah. And I became popular in that community cause they kind of wheeled me out as the, as the, the raw food star that could actually be kind of like the, the poster boy for the vigilante vague and say that you could build muscle on a raw food diet. And so I went through a whole traction and people started hating me in that community. I wasn't a vigilante, but people, you know, the social media, all that whole vague and aneurysm, crap and all that social studies wanted you to be vigilante. They want it, they want it to wheel me out. So I would take on like the carnivore guys and some like UFC battle or something. But anyways, that's tribalism and that's a whole topic that we'll get into our next book coming out next year about that and the dangers of that and why it's so pervasive today in the world and how that sets you up for failure. Wade Lightheart: But, so I went going back to the fullness feeling. So when the hemp protein, you kind of get to a certain amount and because of the insoluble Viber [inaudible], then you were just having like what we call power dumps, like you're going into like, you're walking away from the toilet going, wow. That was amazing. You know, like we all know there. Is there any more, is there any better feeling in life? Honestly, let's just go, let's just go to here for a second. Then walking away from the toilet after you've dropped a really big bomb in there. And looking at that, there's a kind of a sense of pride and there's kind of a sense of if that's off, you know, something wrong and if it's on, you know, something's right, Matt Gallant: Beautiful bowel movements. I think, I think it's something everybody appreciates. And with protein breakthrough, you know, even earlier versions, which we'll get to in a minute, people have always told me personally, man, best bowel movements ever. Wade Lightheart: Yeah. Now, so, so then I realized that we have problems with rice bran and fermented stuff. It's not balanced. It doesn't have enough fiber at anytime in any plant protein. And I think this is one of the dangers. Also, if you can maybe expand on that with carnivore diet or ketogenic diet, if you have too much protein and not enough fiber, this seems to be an issue you get constipated or you don't feel quite, you don't have a regular movements. And so you need the right amount of protein balanced by the right amount of fiber. And what I felt was happening in the the whole rice bran program or the, the high-level, which had a high amino acid content, but it wasn't designed in, it was too sticky. It was too clumpy and that clumpiness was happening inside my guts and it wasn't feeling good. So we went back to, and then I started trying to mix it with him. And the problem with that is now we've got the barn taste again, we're back to the barn because temp is such an overpowering flavor. It's so strong and it's like, okay, so now we're we, I mean, I tried, I tried pumpkin, I tried sunflower, I tried it, Matt Gallant: Everybody pumpkin. One of our favorites that's that let's, let's, let's hit on pumpkin for a second. First of all, pumpkin seed is, you know, a powerhouse nutrient wise, zinc, many other key nutrients, right. For men, especially sink is critical. It's critical for the immune system that it was very clear and whole COVID thing came out. And it tastes great too. I mean, I love the flavor of pumpkin seed protein. It's got a subtle little nutty flavors, not barn, it's not earth, it's not dirt. It's just nice. And, and it blends well with other things. So yeah. Talk about your experience using pumpkin seed protein and how you felt. Wade Lightheart: Yeah, I really I felt it very smooth. But there was a weirdness that happened because, you know, I always take everything to an extreme when I would get beyond say 50 grams in a, in a given day, I started to notice I had a bit of an aversion and I don't know why that is yet. I haven't figured that out. Maybe the imbalance of the, the, the beneficial components, maybe I'm getting too much zinc or something. I don't know what it is and probably have a great prostate because there's, when you, when you spent so much time in your own biological feedback, cause we didn't have feedback mechanisms and rings and wires and headsets and data points. I wasn't the old school of self-observation practicing meditation and awareness of my physiology. And I was trained that way by Scott, my former coach. And I always had that ability to kind of dial into myself. Wade Lightheart: And now we encourage people to dial in the self in correlation with data. So you get cross confirmation of things. But like when I took too much P same thing, when I, when I got past a certain level of pea protein, I felt a fullness that didn't feel right. And when I had too much pumpkin, I felt, I felt like I didn't want anymore. I didn't want to eat protein. So I, I don't know what the mechanism is, but my body was saying, Hey, that's too much of this. And so then, you know, I even went off and tried Sachin each approaching, w let's talk about that. We're going to, I know I'm bouncing all over the place, but these are all the failed experiments. So Sachin ICI program protein was a south American kind of nut thing and kind of tastes, it tastes a little bit, almost like fish because of the way the essential fatty acids in it. Wade Lightheart: And it tastes amazing. It feels great. I loved it. I started taking that and I was like, I started pounding that I always start a little bit. Then I take a moderate amount and then I go to, okay, what's the tolerable level here. And after about a week of pounding Satchin ICI program protein, I start having explosive bowel movements like something's wrong inside my digestion? Well, it turns out years later, the research has indicated that high concentrations of Sachi, Nietzsche protein in your diet causes bowel, disruption, screws up your digestion. So that's a great tasting. Protein feels good when you first start using it and causes major problems down the road. Right? So again, I'm stuck again, right. You know, we're stuck again, every time we run into a limitation with the proteins, with the amino acid profile, with the flavoring, with the clumping, with a not enough fiber with too much content with the sticky, it just became this endless loop for years and years and years, Matt Gallant: Right. To the breakthrough. The breakthrough was blending the three in their perfect ratios so that we get the protein, the amino acids from the P we get the fiber from the hemp. We get the nutrients from the pumpkin again, and the right ratios, which took us, but 145 attempts. And, but let me, let me say another key point. So I'm usually the guy who tries all the RA's. We, we tested, not only did we get the blend right, but finding the perfect vendors for every single line. Cause you know, or yeah, organic hemp protein, there's a huge variance in flavor and quality and fineness. All of those things completely changed the finished product. And, you know, we spent years years trying all of those and it was a huge breakthrough, huge breakthrough. So that's, that's breakthrough. Number one against that combination of the pumpkin, the pea and the hemp. Matt Gallant: Let's, let's jump to the second big breakthrough, which took us a while to figure out. So one of the things that Bob optimizers is, were really against low quality excipients in a most supplements use all kinds of for people. So they know what that is. Yeah. It helps the machines flow. Or in this case, when we talk about protein is it's emulsifiers. So it's a bit of a different thing, but we're as obsessed about all those micronutrients or micro micromolecules that help either with texture flavor or with flow rate, which is what excipients do. And we want the best of the best with everything. And so we've Wade Lightheart: Got F excipients and then we've got a of fires are the two things. Because anytime that, whether it's whey protein, plant protein, whatever type of protein, you need an emulsifier so that when it mixes up in the cup, it doesn't clump, it stays stable. You get a unified flavor in that whole component. This is th this is food science. Correct. And I know you've driven dove deep into food science and share with us some of the obstacles when it comes to emulsifiers on top of, you know, the excipient. Matt Gallant: So literally spend months and months trying all the gums. And if you look at most labels, you'll see xantham gum or gum carrageenan correctly. There's a few more, but those gums are all emulsifiers you, and you'll see them in ice creams as well. Cause you need that and sort of studying just all the different emulsifiers that were out there. And if you just, and a lot of bodybuilders will use a lot of Santam gum to blow up the volume. So one of the problems, a lot of gums is they blow up like literally, that's what they do. So like a little bit of liquid becomes a massive amount of volume, but it's doing that in your, you will feel that if you tip xantham gum and you throw that in a shake, you're going to get some of the bad feelings, bad bio biome feelings that we talked about earlier, which is problematic. Wade Lightheart: Well, let's talk about, I want to expand on that right now, because I think whoever's listening to this is going to understand this is like you we've all made, could be a whey protein shake, a casein shake, planning. You, you mixed up this little shake with water and it looks pretty things. It tastes really sweet or really good. You gun it down. You go to the gym, you get 15 minutes into your workout, or maybe you did it after. And all of a sudden, you've got this bloated distended feeling in your, and you're like something's not right here. That's because of these gums, these, these things, these X emulsifying expanders, if you will, which you're actually okay, it looks cool in the cup. But what happens when it gets in your gut? You know, it's like pumping the Hindenburg into your belly. And I do believe, I do believe. Wade Lightheart: And there's a lot of controversy around hardcore bodybuilding, for example, in distended bellies. Now, if you look at the top, top, top pros, almost all of them stay away from shakes. As they're preparing for contests, they use real food because they find they're convenient. But B these gums I believe is what's also called causing the intestinal bloating and the big bellies that are pervasive. And if you trace back, if you trace back, if you go back in the magazines to the nineties, didn't have the bloated bellies designer, whey protein comes out. I know I'm using [inaudible]. And then in the, in the cornucopia of brands that came out, you know, we can go into Scott Connolly's stuff, metrics and Owen, and all the different things. And the, the expansion of that market, which grew exponentially, which we witnessed firsthand go hand in hand with the correlation of the bloated belly program. They're there, they're there they're hand in hand that go together. Matt Gallant: They do. So I settled on one key, most fighters, many, but the key one is sunflower lecithin, which is really a superfood it's, it's super rich and Coleen, which, you know, not going to get into the brain side, but really important molecule for focus. It's got some great essential fatty acids, and a lot of people would just use some flour less than as a supplement, but it's really an incredible emulsifier to combine the fats and the water. That's what you need. Most of fire does, you know, you're blending fats with water, into a unified liquid, but there's a lot of other great compounds we use like rock account. Now the first protein flavor that's coming out. Wade Lightheart: Can I, can I go back to sunflower lecithin a little bit? Cause there's a historical aspect to this. Awesome. Go for it. Sunflower lecithin lecithin. If you look back in Arnold Schwarzenegger's encyclopedia of bodybuilding, when he was making the very first types of shakes that they started to experiment with, they added sunflower lecithin, but you can go back further. Who was the guy that came up with that? Well, it was associated with a guy by the name of REO H Blair, who was associated with the guy, which was Vince SCA, Rhonda, the first guy to show up at the Mr. Universe, absolutely shredded. He was so shredded. They didn't know what to do with them in the 1940s and became the who's who defacto trainer of the Hollywood star set, which Larry Scott was a tutor was, was under his, the first Mr. Olympia. And then Arnold Schwartzenegger started training at Vince Garon. Wade Lightheart: Does Jim and learned about less a thin at that time as well, which was in the health food industry, California being an epicenter of that. And so he added that in there. So there is a long tradition and sometimes really great things get forgotten and left the side because of manufacturing capabilities and the convenience of using these commercialized extracts, which will create a a flavoring and a scalable result under a company, but may not give you the health result that the original components were done. Cause we're always looking to get close to real food, right. Real things. But the better we are, I think that's a big win. So I just wanted to throw that in there. Please unleash us because of all the people I know you're probably one of, well, we have a bunch of friends that are just chocolate, a holics let's, let's just call it what it is. You guys are Matt Gallant: Considered a [inaudible] fan. Yeah. Coachella clinics or you know, and one of my favorite things to do is literally I bought like a bunch of single bean bars. And even when I went to Peru as an example, I was trying every region of cacao. And what's interesting about plants. You know, tobacco is very similar with cigars, which I got into a few years back is the soil, the minerals in the soil completely impacts the flavor. And of course the genes, right? So the genetics of the seed combined with the nutrients of the soil produce a certain flavor. And with cows, it's pretty shocking. You know, some cows are really a fruity, some are more smokey, earthy, some are more stringent, bitter, just a huge variance in flavors. And we spent a long, long time testing, cows and testing Cocos. And we found the perfect blend of Cocos and cows, which was another breakthrough which can get into so that it emulsifies, cause it can coul tend to float. The cocoa is defatted so it blends easier. But that combination, I think hits way more notes in the, in a taste buds, your taste buds have all these different layers and different parts of the mouth and our goal is to hit it all. So I'm a foodie. I love, I love the science of food and, you know, with the cows and the cocoas and Yetter emulsifiers, we use Maka. Maka is an amazing adaptogen, which means that it helps kill the nerves. Jensen. Wade Lightheart: A lot of people call it because it grows at high altitude. It's got all these remarkable properties. Matt Gallant: Yeah. I love Macari. Marco is really an amazing plant. Also grows in Peru is great. When you go to Peru, you go to the airport by mocker candy and it's just, it's just readily available everywhere, which is awesome. But Maka is amazing. So we got maca root, we've got Mesquite, which is also kind of a naturally sweet sweet, smoky plant. And you know, again, it's, it's loaded with Irin lysine, manganese, potassium, and zinc. And then we got lacuna Ana LA Kuma. Almost no one that I know has tried fresh lymphoma that also grows in Peru. It looks like an avocado, like, so this has got the same similar shape, similar skin. And when you cut it, it's similar in the sense that you'll see a big round seed in the middle, but the color is caramel and it tastes like caramel. It's like a sweet caramel avocado, similar texture. Again, they use it a lot for yogurts and stuff like that, Peru. So we used a bit of that as well. So that combination of the cacao, the sunflower lecithin, the Mesquite, the cocoa, the Luma all blend together and emulsify is incredibly well without the gums. And it took us a long time to nail that that was, that was breakthrough numbers. It was years, it was years. It was literally. Wade Lightheart: And, and, and, you know, you know half a dozen world renowned chocolate tiers, and we know the greatest sourcer of natural food products. And so these, and we won't reveal any names, but we know the people that actually go to the farms. It's been all over the world that understands the sophistication of these nuances at an M three. And it still took us years to find this combination. Matt Gallant: Yeah. Now let's get to the protein breakthrough, number three, which was the ultimate healthy sweetener blend. So being a keto guy since I'm 16 you know, and I love sweets, I got a sweet tooth, you know, horn with it as well. You had to go keto, right? Yeah. It was part of the solution for sure. And of course, you know, I love tasty sweet treats once in awhile, even on, so I've been using, you know, artificial alternative sweeteners for a long, long time. And the first thing we wanted was something that was the healthiest sweeteners possible. And I know personally, a lot of people that have run a lot of experiments on sweeteners, for example, xylitol is one of those sweeteners that's, you know, considered an alternative sweeteners and buddy will spike your blood sugar. So that was out normal. Serger was out because of [inaudible] effect, sucralose and aspartame is one of those controversial ones where you've got a group number one that says it doesn't matter. Matt Gallant: It doesn't affect you. And group number two says, well, aspartame and in your toxin, sucralose is problematic. So, you know, there's been some interesting tests that have come out on the effects of those on gut biome, making them actually insulin resistant within a week. So those were out. So what we settled on as the primary sweeteners is one [inaudible] and two monk fruit Monkfruit is a fruit that grows in a very special place in China. It's very hard to grow outside of that. And it's amazing. It's got a kind of a natural caramel flavor and just another comment too, on, on trying all these different sources of Monkfruit. That was one of the craziest ones on variants. I'd say 80% of them tasted weird and chemically. And then we found some that just tasted amazing and tasted natural. Wade Lightheart: So that comes down to also to not just growing, but how, what kind of processing or non chemicals are they using to extract it? How they process it, how they manufacture it, how they store it, the kind of facilities, what it's been subjected to. So just so people understand when you're sourcing out ingredients, anything is when you, you can pick an ingredient, but the variance between the quality of that ingredient is exponential. So for, well, let's do Stevia. That's another one. So just say that Matt Gallant: Yes, probably even more so, because most people, so again, you know, being BiOptimizers, we get people sending us extracts all the time, the difference between a 98% Stevia and a 99.6% Stevia, it's not comparable like the bitterness and most people that have tried Stevia, I've only tried lower quality extracts that have really bittered after taste and afternoon and notes. So finding the absolute finest Stevia with no after taste that took a long time. And let me go to one of the big, big revelations when it comes to sweeteners and it has to do with how the palette works is you want to a synergistic blend of multiple sweeteners, especially when it comes to creating a really cohesive, sweet flavor that hits the palette. No aftertaste, no weird notes, which again, you can get, if you use too many of these, any one of these compounds. Matt Gallant: And then we use the microdose about one gram per serving of coconut sugar, because it really helped balance and bring all the, the sweetness together. So synergy is the key. When you use multiple sweeteners, you're going to, you're going to need less of any one of them. And that's our big, one of our big secrets. If you will, to forming products, including Nutopia is instead of using an extreme amount of any one thing, let's synergize, let's amplify and we'll we'll need less of it. So that was a, the third big breakthrough. Why protein breakthroughs is so epic. Go ahead. But Wade Lightheart: As they say in the cheesy eighties commercials, but there's more because there's two other ingredients that you brought into this mix specifically in order to bring out the full flavor protocol profile and that's Himalayan salt, inorganic vanilla flavor. And it's interesting how vanilla is often thought of as the opposite of chocolate and salt is oftentimes considered the opposite of sweet now. And what's fascinating because I have a little bit of background I would call an amateurish in interest in Chinese medicine and are you Vedic medicine? And they talk about the perfect meal, which addresses all of these components, sweetness, saltiness, bitterness, right? Pungent flavor, like all these diff and texture and creamy, like all of these sensory experiences are required in order to get us to feel the sense of, okay, I've, I've gotten everything I possibly could. Can you talk about why you added those two elements to the formula and how that kind of, it's kind of like these, the oboes or something and acquire you, don't you like whoever who thinks of going out and playing an oboe, but if you listen to an orchestra and there's no oboes, you're going to know that something's not quite right with that, that sound. Matt Gallant: Yeah. So salt is one of the most valuable substances we have on earth. You know, our bodies need these minerals to function and Himalayan salt is incredible, right? 70 plus different trace minerals. So that's reason number one. But the real reason we use it in protein breakthrough is that it will actually amplify the sweetness. And that's something most people don't know, but if you have a sweet tooth like me and you play around in the kitchen, and I really got into raw desserts for a long time. And I used to just prepare all kinds of things because it was fun. The salt is a game changer. So the salt, again, this is, I know it sounds bizarre, but solve amplifies sweetness so that you just, it just tastes better. And now the vanilla, and this is, this is where this is really the true food science. Matt Gallant: You know, you want subtle things in the background, kind of what you're talking about with the oboe and the vanilla adds that the vanilla in, again, trace amounts adds a nice little background note that you can taste if you're, if you're, if you've got a good palette. So those are the reasons for those compounds. And again, everything is just the best of the best. And we've, I think achieved the best tasting healthiest plant-based meal or meal replacement or protein shake ever, which I know is a bold statement, but Wade talk about, and I was just, it was awesome. I was at the bio home in Venice beach, California with Wade a couple of weeks ago when the finished labeled product arrived in Wade was the most excited I've seen in a long time. So we talk about what your experience has been using the product and what the feedback has been with. The people that, you know, Wade Lightheart: First and foremost, you have to understand something here I've been searching for this protein for the last it's now 17 years. Actually, it's even more than that. If I go back to being, when a plant pays vegetarian, I started it's literally 20 years ago, this July. So I've been a plant-based guy for 20 years. I've been on a quest for the perfect plant based protein powder for 20 years. And it's been a, it's been a long Wade Lightheart: Dark journey. There's Wade Lightheart: Been a lot of failed experiments. There's been a lot of bad shakes. I live on these things. Like I don't have any other options. You got to understand when people, when, when I'm talking about this product, I'm sharing with you as a, as an athletic vegetarian, I don't have other options. My options are limited. My options are limited to having soy beans, tofu, Tenpay, some form of ground up nuts, you know broccoli, right? Like, is anybody hearing those things and excited about eating that every single day of their life? You know? No, of course not. Nobody is. Nobody's excited about that. Not, not anybody, not there's nobody in the world is excited about. I wasn't excited about it and I don't blame anybody else for not being excited about it. It's when it comes to protein breakthrough. It's like, I feel like the guy that was like searching for Shangri-La, you know, he's lost in the wilderness for 20 years and he has all these crazy adventures. Wade Lightheart: And then finally he stumbles into the enchanted canyon itself and looks in and it's like, oh, here it is. And the product shows up here and I taste it and it tastes better than I thought possible. I'm not a food science guy. I'm not like you that way. I'm not, I'm not a quote unquote foodie. I'm happy to eat the same boring things all the time. I'm okay with that stuff. I don't have a sophisticated palette. I'm not a food genius. I'm a quality freak. Yep. I'm really into quality. But you know, food is always been fuel for me, nothing more, nothing less than something that I do socially more than anything else. But finally, with protein breakthrough, I'm like, oh my God, I feel like I'm eating like a chocolate bar or a really high end chocolate dessert from a great raw food chef, which I've had before. Wade Lightheart: But it's something that I can use and take every single day to support my physical goals and, and concurrently, it feels like I'm cheating having, I think what's maybe one of the only purely plant based products, which is everything in this thing is, is made from real food. There's no weirdness, there's no chemicals, there's no absorb. There's no emulsifiers and excipients and, and funked out poor quality sweeteners. There's no cheap blended plants because it's a me too product. None of all this, it's an engineered meal replacement, a biologically engineered meal replacement product that contains all of the elements you need in combination with all of the flavorings that makes your body go yes, packed into one container that all I need to do is to take out this thing and put it in water and it tastes amazing. And if I put it with the nut milk, or if I mix it with fruit or bananas or whatever you want, it goes to the insane zone. Wade Lightheart: And I walk out of my house laughing like a madman because I'm going, I can't believe it tastes that good. And now that might sound like hyperbole. And you're like, oh my God, he's going over the top. Wade's kind of ranting. Look, I'm just sharing with you from my heart. I've been looking for this for 20 years. Like this is, this is legit. This is rear real. And what I'm most excited for, because as we talked about earlier in the podcast, we've always been oriented on the mission. I am an advocate for plant-based diets. I'm not a vigilante, I'm not in something, but I do believe, and I think anyone could say, Hey, you know what, if we had a little bit more plants it's in her life, then something else, you know, probably good. It's a, probably a good thing. I think most people can kind of say, yeah, you know, I just don't really like all that stuff. Wade Lightheart: But now we've something that I like as an athlete that kids are going to love as a treat that mothers are going to be able to trust that something's healthy, as Catholics are going to say, it's an opportunity as vegetarians are going to say, Hey, this is something that I can support. And mediators, even total hardcore meat eaters. I invite you to try this and say, you know what? That actually tastes better than my whey protein, my KC and protein, the current protein that I'm using supplement my diet that I'm getting like, you know, you know, sodium what the heck of late and emulsify a Franken fires inside of that product. Those two things are something that's not in this. So it's not just what's in it. It's, what's not in it that makes this so unique. Superpower profile is so powerful and so great for people to enjoy, to love and to experience. Wade Lightheart: And that's why I'm so excited about sharing this with the world. My only concern, and there is a legitimate concern because I know I absolutely know into the core of my soul, that when people start using this product, they're going to love it and they're going to want it. And the problem is, is I don't even know how we're going to meet demand. I don't know how we're going to be able to do it's that, that our biggest issue is going to be the demand for this product. Because every single person who has tried this product to date is going, I can't believe how good this product tastes. And I can't believe how it feels in my body compared to every other protein I've ever taken in my life. Matt Gallant: And just to wrap up, I think a couple of key points, you know, this can save you money on your grocery bill, improve your health, improve, whatever your objectives are, which is awesome, right? Just if you're not having a protein shake, just replacing one meal with one protein breakthrough shake, that's a game changer, probably going to cut an extra 508, 800,000 calories from your daily diet and you'll feel great. It's super convenient. You can do it at work, do it in a, in a car, throw in a shaker cup, blend and drink. So that's point number one, point number two, if you're already using a shake, give it a shot because I think that the way you feel from this shake is awesome. You know, ways not exaggerating. I think the essential fatty acids, the trace minerals, you feel it, you know, the, the, when you're eating great food, there's an effect that your brain has your mitochondria get fed. Matt Gallant: You feel great. And that's one of these shakes where you drink it and you just pay attention to how your body feels an hour later, 90 minutes later, like, wow, it feels good. So we've just released. I think by the time this podcast comes out, chocolate bliss was our first flavor and we've already got the second one ready, which is going to come out. I think early fall called Berry bliss and Berry bliss. I mean, when I tried the final, the final samples, I was just blown away. Like, you know, I'll be Frank, it's exceeded. I had a goal in mind in terms of flavor with both of these products, we've exceeded that. I, I didn't, I wasn't sure if this was achievable, but we've done it. And the Berry bliss is just, yeah. I mean, it was just literally blowing my mind as, as, as it was drinking it, you throw half a cup of any fresh berries in there, or just drink it by itself with a nut milk. I like putting a little bit of ice and half a cup of whatever fruit you love. It's just insane. It's all I can say. So wait, and you had other final comments on Berry bliss or protein breakthrough. Why should people go out and grab some right now? Wade Lightheart: Well, it's really simple. Every single product we've ever produced in our company, we've completely, de-risked it. If you try protein breakthrough, your order, a bottle order to my suggestion is stock up with whatever the offer is, because I don't know what we're going to do to handle the volume Matt Gallant: Of this going to be selling. We're going to Wade Lightheart: Be selling out. The demand is demand will be a problem. It's not a, is it going to be. I just, I know plant-based proteins. I'm probably tried more plant-based proteins than anybody in the world, but here's the caveat here is the offset to what might be perceived as hyperbole in my enthusiasm for this project and this product. And that is if this isn't the best meal replacement you've ever had in your life, I'll go up against Gordon Ramsay. I'll go against the greatest chefs in the world. I'll go against the top nutritional experts on the planet. Gram for gram taste for taste mixability for mixability. If, if we don't beat everybody, if is not the world heavyweight champion of proteins in general, I'm talking anything, put anything against, put, weigh against it, put soy against it, put Casey in against it. Put any plant-based combination that you want against this product. Wade Lightheart: And if it doesn't blow it away like total first round to canvas knockout, not only are we going to give you your money back, we're going to send you a label to ship back the extra bottles that you should have ordered in the first place. Why can we do it? Well, we have a 17 year history of doing that. We're known as one of the greatest brands in the industry by optimizers as well known by the who's, who of the industry. They love the fact that we back everything up with a 365 day guarantee. We de-risk the entire thing, but on top of that, we have nailed it. And I just want as many people as possible to experience the sheer pleasure and joy that I have every time I makes up a protein breakthrough shake. In fact, I'm so excited. I'm going to get off this podcast and I'm going to go make one right now to celebrate because it's 20 years and we've won. If no one ever bought this, it'd be great. The problem is everybody's going to buy it and you should too. Can't wait for you to try it. Rocket out protein, breakthrough.com. Bioptimizers greatest protein product ever created something that will change your life and the people that you love. Matt Gallant: Go for it now.