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139: Get Better Sleep Using High Tech ‘Thermal Regulation’ – with Matteo Franceschetti

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“Why is Elon Musk taking us to Mars, but we are still expected to spend 8 hours a day on a dumb piece of foam?”

That is the question posed by this episode’s guest – Matteo Franceschetti – a dynamic Italian entrepreneur who is disrupting the global sleep industry. 

He’s on a quest to crack the code for a perfect night’s sleep using big data. 

How Matteo and his business partner collect that data is where things get fascinating.    

A former lawyer, Matteo is now CEO of Eight Sleep. A company focused on using technology to help people optimize their ‘sleep fitness’ and efficiency. 

Matteo was a serious tennis player during his teen years.  As an athlete, that period of his life is when he started to get obsessed with physical recovery and rebounding faster after a grueling tournament or injury. 

After becoming a “boring business lawyer” for two large firms, Matteo caught the entrepreneurial bug, which naturally led to working long hours. Once again, his bent toward efficiency prompted him to ask, “why do I have to sleep eight hours? Can I sleep less and recover faster?” 

If you think humans “need” 8 hours of sleep to be at an optimal level of health, Matteo’s discoveries through research and data may surprise you. “Eight hours is what our body needs today because there is no technology enhancing our recovery. Elon Musk is taking us to Mars, but I still spend a third of my life on a piece of foam. We have technology everywhere. We are using technology to conduct this interview. But we spend a third of our life, eight hours every single day on something that hasn’t changed for 4,000 years.”

You won’t fall asleep listening to this exciting conversation between Matteo and our host Wade T. Lightheart. However, you may start sleeping like a baby after hearing the many hacks and tips on getting better sleep revealed in this episode.    

In this podcast, we cover:

  • How a lawyer in Italy became a sleep expert and sleep industry innovator
  • Sleep compression – getting more rest while sleeping less time 
  • How Matteo’s sleep technology “keeps you alive” by detecting early signs of illness, like inflammation, while you sleep
  • How 8 Sleep develops its technology
  • What is “thermal regulation”? 
  • Everything that this sleep technology tracks in your body
  • Things Matteo is finding in his research that positively or negatively affect sleep 
  • Two revolutionary sleep products developed by 8 Sleep
  • The fantastic software 8 Sleep is developing that Matteo describes as the “Tesla of sleep” 

A sneak peek behind the curtain:

Matteo reveals the co-founder of 8 Sleep is “kind of a genius” who can “build a space shuttle in the garage.” So he builds the latest technology, and then Matteo serves as the “guinea pig” who tests out the equipment. Matteo is always sleeping on something that the company will be releasing in a couple of years. He tests it and gives feedback to his team. The engineers then iterate until the product is consumer-ready.  

What does this technology monitor while you are sleeping?

8 Sleep technology can monitor everything about your heart rate – your HRV (Heart Rate Variability). Their tech is “semi medical-grade accurate,” meaning it is within one heartbeat per minute, compared to medical-grade EKG – but you don’t have to wear anything. You go to bed as you do now, and then you have this incredible data at your fingertips  (on the app.) 

8 Sleep technology also monitors your entire respiration. In the future, the tech will be able to track snoring and sleep apnea. Everything about your sleep gets observed – like when you toss and turn or when your sleep stages occur – everything – with no need for charging batteries or wearing anything during the night. 

Matteo describes the 8 Sleep product as “the Lamborghini of beds.” And you can give this sleep technology a test drive for 100 Nights with a risk-free, no-questions-asked full refund policy behind it. 

Time to put those sleepless nights to bed using modern technology. Matteo and his team at 8 Sleep are doing incredible work. His team includes professors from Stanford and Harvard. Tune in and tune up one of the essential parts of your day – sleeping! 

Listen to this episode and start sleeping better than ever! You deserve to wake up each morning feeling refreshed. 

Episode Resources:
Check more about Matteo Franceschetti & 8 Sleep:
8 Sleep on Facebook
8 Sleep on Twitter
Matteo Franceschetti on Twitter
8 Sleep on Instagram

Read The Episode Transcript:

Wade Lightheart: Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. It's Wade T. Lightheart from BiOptimizers with another edition of the awesome health podcast. And today we're going to talk about, well, one of our favorite topics sleep, and more importantly, how you can improve it, particularly around Thermo regulation. Before you ask what that is, we're going to get, we got an expert to join us who understands the science behind how to get better sleep Matteo Franceschetti. And I hope I got that right. I'm trying to get my, my pronunciation. Right. But, you know, we do the best that we can just be like any Italian now. So, you know, my, my my family lived next to Italians when I was in Toronto. So it was exposed to Italian culture and I love it. It's so lively and fun. I remember crushing grapes when I was a kid and, and you know, the talking with the hands and everything.

 Wade Lightheart: But anyways, let me get to the, let me get to the background before we get into the fun. Matteo is the CEO of eight sleep a company focused on using technology to help people optimize their sleep fitness and efficiency. They over 40,000 customers and are quickly becoming one of the largest sleep databases in the world. Now Matteo started his career as a business lawyer in Italy, after which he founded and sold two companies in clean tech, all the, while he suffered from poor sleep and R L S. And for those who don't know what that is, that's restless leg syndrome. This led him to think deeply about how sleep should be improved through technology. And one of the big questions is, is why is Elon Musk taking us to Mars, but we are still expected to sleep eight hours a day on a dumb piece of phone

 Matteo Franceschetti: Matteo. Great

 Wade Lightheart: To have you on the show. Thank you for joining us today.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Thank you for having me and for the, for the beautiful introduction. Thank you so much. And so, you know, we spend a third

 Wade Lightheart: Of our lives sleeping and some people less, some people more, some people would say they'd never been awake and other people think that they're woke, but besides all the political ramifications, tell me a little bit about how a lawyer from Italy in clean tech ended up becoming a sleep expert and particularly in the area of Thermo regulation, which sounds like something that Elon Musk would be concerned about with his rockets on radio.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. So everything really start to start. When I was a teenager, I was an athlete. I was a tennis player. So I was really into recovery, health, and fitness, and all that, to know that an athlete will look at. And so then I became a boring business lawyer working for two very large law firms. And I became an entrepreneur and I was the typical entrepreneur working long hours. And so I started looking into sleep and wondering, why do I have to sleep eight hours? Can I sleep last and recover faster? Yeah. And then as I started reading clinical papers, I understood that there's another, we need eight hours. Eight hours is what our body needs today because there is no technology enhancing our recovery. And that is when I started saying why you, the mask is taking me to mass. And I still spend a third of my life on a piece of gum for, we have technology everywhere.

 Matteo Franceschetti: We are using technology right now. You and I, because we're not in the same city, but then I spend a third of my life, eight hours every single day on something that didn't change for 4,000 years. Because if you're thinking outside the difference between sleeping on a rock and a sleeping on a piece of foam to nothing change it in the way we spend our life. So I started looking into that, how I could improve it. And I realized that there was a big elephant in the room. So the 80 20 was live improvement is thermoregulation. There's plenty of clinical and medical evidence that by changing the temperature of your body during the night continuously, you can fall asleep faster and get more restful sleep. And that is what we built. This

 Wade Lightheart: Is super cool. And first and foremost, I love the thinking that you put into the start, because so for, for those who know the show and love, listen, Matteo and I were in an argument, an ongoing discussion or debate for about 15 years. And Matt is someone who really struggles with sleep. And I'm someone that does pretty well on sleep. And Matt argued at the time that he needed, you know, nine hours of sleep in order for him to feel rest and recover. He's a serial entrepreneur. And I was like, you know, if I get more than seven, I get groggy. I prefer you run it around six is be nice. And I feel bad if I go eight. I'm like, oh, Hey man, I wasted some time. Anyways, we heard this, we saw this book about chronotypes Matt of course, discovered after sleep technology that he had really, really, he had no deep sleep. And and so he started investing in one of the things that he talked about was Thermo regulation. I would love to know how you got into, like, what was your thinking behind the kind of the hack that you were going to compress the time to sleep? Was that, was that the original goal?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yes. So our vision is based on two pillars. One is sleep compression and second is to save your life. Sleep compression means what if you can sleep only six hours and get more rest than when you were sleeping eight hours while it doesn't apply to you, but applies to the average human being right, saving your life means you're still spending six hours there every single day on this device for multiple years standing still. And so what else can we do for you during that time? And my idea was we should scan your body. We should be able to detect early signs of illnesses or any inflammation. Right? So what if going to bed was more valuable than going to your doctor now? Because we want to replace the doctor, but because we want to give the data and the tools to the doctor of what happens in your body every single day. And that is what we're building. It's super

 Wade Lightheart: Cool. And what was some of the things like maybe what were some of the early experiments or things that you learned in order to start getting the data that you required?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. I mean, we S we, my co-founder and CTO is, is the kind of genius who can build a space shuttle in the garage. And so he started building stuff. Then I was the Guinea pig testing. And so when I was still a teacher of the early days of the early prototypes, we worked, there were these cables and these real sensors. And still today, I'm always couple of years ahead of what we all used to consumer. So I'm sleeping on something we're releasing two years from now. And I can tell you, is this it's pretty crazy. And I test it and I give feedback to my team and then the engineers iterate. And from there, we, we take it to a consumer ready state. 

 Wade Lightheart: That's super cool. 

 Matteo Franceschetti: So what led

 Wade Lightheart: You to the concept of thermal regulation? And then what, what did you do in order to kind of achieve that? And so some people were saying, well, thermal regulation, does that mean you get hotter? Or does that mean you get colder?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. So what led us? There was actually an honestly pretty simple. Once we started talking to customers, we immediately understood that the biggest problem in the sleep is people tend to sleep hot and 60, 50, 60% of the capitals, they fight around temperature because they have different preferences, right? But what we see is men tend to sleep hot more than women. And so they have different needs. But the other big thing is, is when you hear people saying, oh, you should sleep at 68 degrees, that's wrong. And the reason is 68 degrees could be right for 30 minutes an hour of your night, but your body temperature changes during the night with based on your circadian cycle. And so your bed temperature needs to change accordingly. So it was so overwhelming that the need from the customers that we knew since from the beginning that we have to build it the way we built it is we built a thermal engine that is wifi connected that are sourcing your bed based on the sensors. We can detect everything about your heart rate respiration and sleep stages. And based on that, we keep changing the temperature during the night, each side of the bed can have a different temperature. Temperature can range from 55 to one, 10 degrees per side of the bed. And so you have your own metrics and you have your own temperature that keeps changing during the night to maximize your sleep. Okay.

 Wade Lightheart: Wow. That's like, so this is literally, it's like using intelligent sleep system to kind of monitor. So I'm curious as how did you know, or how does someone determine how to regulate the temperature on someone? That's a pretty big range? You said 55 to one 10.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. Obviously these are the extreme. So they are Guerra is overbuilt to be able to really achieve anything, right? Because then what you will find is a few people that can sleep at 60. And usually during the night, they range between 55 and 65. You know? So your real range is probably plus minus five, but every person is different because body temperature is different, not the body temperature, but the temperature needed for your, for a good night of sleep is based on your gender or your age on your metabolism or your body fat. And that is why it's so effective because right now you and I, who was living in a dumb bed, it would be the same bed for both of us. And this bed actually will become warmer and warmer during the night because your body dissipate heat that gets trapped into the form, which is exactly the opposite thing of what you need. But if you and I will use an eight sleep, the calibration of your temperature settings will be meaningfully different from mine. Very cool. Now, just as a curiosity,

 Wade Lightheart: If you think back to our ancestors may be sleeping on the ground I would assume that the ground would absorb a lot of the body heat and not reflected back where a mattress would hold that temperature and maybe reflect the Backwoods. Is there, have you looked at the differences in that or is that, is that just totally ridiculous?

 Matteo Franceschetti: No, it is a good point. The way you look at that is this our ancestors, they were going to bed when they started becoming dark. And then in the first part of the night, temperature dropped, right? So it was getting colder, which is exactly what you still need today for your deep sleep. So we cool you down in the first part of the night that matches what is happening outdoor. And then three, four hours before you wake up, we start warming you up again, which is going to scholarly is happening because now the sun in the morning is coming. So the first principle is the same. It's just that our beds were not designed for that. And our medicines are not designed for that. And we needed the technology to just do it for us.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. That's very cool. What kind of things are you using to monitor? What, like, what are the monitoring points that your technology is, is tracking? So

 Matteo Franceschetti: We measure everything about your heart rate, right? So how to recover as an HRV and in the future, we are semi medical grade accurate, meaning we are within one heartbeat per minute, compared to your medical grade kg, but you don't wear anything. It's just about the battery as you did last night, but you have this data, then we monitor everything about your respiration, right? So in the future, our devices will be able to track things like snoring and sleep apnea. And then we monitor everything about your your sleep. So I was at time timing, bed, tossing turns, wake ups, and sleep stages. All these again, without you wearing anything or charging anything,

 Wade Lightheart: That's really unique. And so how does this technology, like, I'm obviously not revealing any patents or anything, but basically how many sensors they put in here. And how does that regulate inside? And I get this, I guess you're talking about this as a whole mattress system, or is it something you lay on the bed? Can you explain that to people?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. So we have two products. One is a cover and one is the mattress. The cover, you can retrofit your existing mattress. Sorry. If you don't want to change it, you just bought it. Or you don't want to fight with your partner to come be the partner to change the bed. You just made the cover. It goes over your current mattress. It has the same features of our own. Our own mattress is 30 million people buying a new mattress every year in the U S they need to change it. We just give you the Lamborghini of the beds, just come to us. This is the best product ever. They throw a lot of sensors across the surface. They are like the [inaudible] source is like a microphone that you don't, you cannot feel. And it really works like a substantially, a stethoscope is just a three point no stethoscope. So we are able to pick any vibration and excited. You know, when you go to the doctor, he put the stethoscope on your back and he can hear your heart rate and your respiration, if you have, and all that is the same thing, just built with more technology. I got

 Wade Lightheart: It. Now, do you have to actually plug this bed in or plug the sheets in

 Matteo Franceschetti: You do a day one, and then you don't do it for ever again, so four years. So it's like a TV. So how does

 Wade Lightheart: That work? I'm confused. How, like, so you want me to explain

 Matteo Franceschetti: It? Yeah. So there is a hub next to the bed. So obviously you don't, you don't sleep on the electronics and all that part. And the hub is the one that is applied to the world. And then these, this hobble looks like just the console, like a index box, you know, and from there, the X-Box is connected with a cable to the, to the mattress itself because there is the liquid that is running from there into the mattress. The mattress uses a water to heat and cool each side of the bed. And that is why there is a table, a cable connecting the chip. Now, do

 Wade Lightheart: You have to fill up the mattress periodically

 Matteo Franceschetti: Once a quarter? So you will receive a notification in your app, and it's just a reset of volume, like a coffee machine. You put the water in and you put it back. And for three months, you can forget about that.

 Wade Lightheart: That's really cool. And then I guess they divide that into kind of two separate sections. If so your partner can kind of dial things in for them. And is that all controlled on the same setting? Like on the same hub?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. It's just one hub. One habit can power both sides. And from the app of your phone, you can control both sides, but your partner obviously can have an app as well. And so everyone can control both sides if needed. I see. So he

 Wade Lightheart: Could just mess around with your partner if they made you mad, you can turn

 Matteo Franceschetti: Up the heat. So

 Wade Lightheart: How is it that you guys were able, like when you're, when it's monitoring your sleep how does it, how often does it read the data? How can you check this? And is that stored in, is that data now fed into a repertoire or like a repository of information that you guys are collecting to kind of make better integrations on the tech?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah, so the data's collected thousands of times per minute. So it was a continuous tracking the data through your wifi. They just go to the cloud where we run the machine learning and AI, and then you see it reflected the results, our machine learning models in, in your app, the device, it becomes smarter because it's that knowing more and more about you. And based on that risk tests, also providing a recommendation and insights, recommendation, and insights are designing in two buckets, one for temperature. So we can now automatically adjust that we will automatically adjust for you temperature based on environmental changes or yelled time have great or real-time respiration. So this device does the work for you. Then on top of that, we also provide recommendations about your sleep or like, so you received sleep reports where we can tell you things like the local, the times that you train in the morning, you get 20% more deep sleep. Then when you train in the afternoon or all the times that you have alcohol, your deep sleep drops 40%.

 Wade Lightheart: Wow. That's really, that's, that's really interesting data that you're now able to correlate your exercise schedule. What's the optimal time for you to exercise, which is affecting your sleep. What are some of the patterns that you've been able document or notice over the years? Is, is it a wide variance? Are there some generalized trends that you've been able to kind of ascertain?

 Matteo Franceschetti: So there are some common habits that have a major impact on your sleep. The, the most obvious and, and, and no one is probably cold. So sometimes you have a, let's say a couple of drinks and you feel a bit foggy and you think, oh, I will have a better night because my mind is not racing. The reality is if you look at your Hartford and HRV and both of them, they will try and in a negative direction. And so the quality of your sleep that night will be way worse than what you usually get. Coffee is another one. Obviously both of them, they have a different, they're very personalized. Meaning when you share these information is always general, but instead the future of sleep is personalized. And so maybe you can have two glasses of wine and have the same mean arc of someone who had four glasses of wine, or maybe you need to leave an hour between alcohol and sleep. What is that? I need to leave two hours, you know? Right, right. Same for caffeine, right? The rule of time we stopped drinking caffeine eight hours before going to bed, but maybe you can drink up to two hours before and I have to stop 10 hours earlier.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. That's funny. I have a Brazilian girlfriend and she's like, no, we're from Brazil. We can, we drink coffee before we go to bed. But yeah, I would suspect likely, you know, it makes a great coffee in Italy. And also I always say we should, we also drink Yerba Matay. And so there's a running joke, which is a south American green tea, highly caffeinated. And I call it Brazilian camomile cause she likes to have that. So it's very interesting, the variance within people on that now with using that. And I love that you're able to tell, you're able to see training times. What also are you seeing in an overall general improvements when people start using the sleep system? The eight sleep. Yeah.

 Matteo Franceschetti: So what we see and or they report publicly without their devices, they fall asleep up to 20% faster. They get the 30 to 40% last week. After 30, 40% less person turns and report that with other devices, they have shown publicly 20 to 40% more deep sleep. Wow. Right. everyone is different, but there are cases of people reporting 40% or weekly. And do you

 Wade Lightheart: See any impact on total time sleeping?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Right. Because some degree are falling asleep faster and you're getting more restful sleep. So maybe we didn't save you two hours yet, but maybe we are saving you 15, 20 minutes already. And this is just the beginning of our product roadmap. That's really great. And then

 Wade Lightheart: How long does it take for someone to kind of optimize their regulation based on the data in feedback typically? Cause I guess it's reading all this stuff and you'd start running it. There's the temperature variance is number one. And then the next one would be kind of lifestyle things that might be impacting your sleep. Like you had mentioned coffee or caffeine working out or these other things. Yeah. What w what are you noticing there?

 Matteo Franceschetti: So usually takes around a week to find your perfect settings. Then, as we say, as we were saying before, even once you find your perfect settings, these settings change, it could be a winter storm that could be a heat storm that you could, you might have had alcohol, or you just had a pizza night. There was a lot of carbs. All these factors, they have an impact on the temperature that you need to maximize your sleep. Actually, we are running tests to where we are trying to see through thermoregulation. We can also slow your heart rate to help you recover plaster, right? And can we have an impact on your HIV? And this could happen in two ways. One, you are on baseline, but we want to improve your baseline. Or two is you come to bed that your heart rate is higher than expected because you had alcohol and can we slow it down faster than what it will do on its own without our intervention. That's

 Wade Lightheart: That, that's really cool. And I guess I'm curious as to what are some of the things that you're noticing around 

 Matteo Franceschetti: Heart rate

 Wade Lightheart: Variability and, you know, temperature regulations, stuff like that, what, what what's typically happening and, and, and I guess the next part would be, how do you slow when you slow your heart down? That generally does that generally result in a deeper sleep.

 Matteo Franceschetti: We're testing that because if you think it's the beauty of what we are doing is we have such a large number of data right now that it's something that has never existed before. And so no one has been able to really run these tests at scale. And that is why we have some of the best professors in the world from Stanford and Harvard and Mount Sinai joining and knowing our mission, because in one night we collect more data than what they have seen in their whole career. Right? And so we're learning things that humanity doesn't know. And so there is a lot of research. And so we are exploring what you just asked me. We don't have the answer yet. We have hypothesis. But in a month or two months, we might have the answer, an answer that never existed in thousands of years.

 Wade Lightheart: It's pretty amazing. And it's one of the power of tech and data. Matt, my business partner has a saying that data shapes, destinies, and he loves that. Yeah, he's a total data freak and is super into the sleep part particular because he struggled with, he really, really struggled with it. And it's made a big difference in his life. What are any things that other things that you are noticing from your research that's impacting sleep either positively or negatively?

 Matteo Franceschetti: So, I mean was obviously outside temperature, right? Temperatures, the planning of the game outside that is a routine. So being very mindful, I'm going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time, you have a biological clock in your body. So you just want to teach your body. This is the time you should fall asleep. The time you should wake up naturally. Second is start winding down before going to bed. So in my case, I have Phillips, you light this switch to orange around 7:30 PM, and then they keep coming down during the night. So they kind of stimulate melatonin. I think melatonin from time to time, not every day, but probably once a week. And another thing I do is I recommend that is what they call thermal shock. So before, before the narrower, before bed, I take a shower and I keeps switching between hot and cold, 30 seconds and 30 seconds can times, or if you have the opportunity or you are in a hotel, you could try a sound and a nice bath. That thermal shock really relaxes me and helps me to get ready to then go to bed, call it an hour later. One of the things that these worst for me, three OutCo, credible, I stopped drinking country years ago, caffeine and exercise in the evening or late afternoon, it accelerates my heart rate. Sometimes I cannot fall asleep. And even if I fall asleep, the first part of the night, I have really low quality sleep.

 Wade Lightheart: You know, that's, what's so great about when you have a feedback system particularly on your own feedback is like, you can look here's the results, the data doesn't lie, and you make those adjustments. How many hours of sleep do you sleep now? Like, does it made a difference in the time you slept? Cause that was kind of the original goal, right?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. I still sleep a lot. Right. But I have restless legs as you were saying at the beginning. So I solve a big part of that improved my quality. I'm still sleeping between eight and nine hours of sleep. I have seen major impacts on my HRV and might have threat of arresting, but HIV is way higher. I was sleeping less before COVID Dr. COVID is when I started increasing it. Then my HIV went up 20% on average is pretty meaningful. But I improve my time to fall asleep. I reduce my cost center and wake up. I mean, it's,

 Wade Lightheart: It's a super powerful in regards to all those things. Tell me a little bit about the technology, the actual like, so for example, let's say someone was going to get one of the covers or the mattresses, like what's it made of how easy is it to obtain all those sorts of things? How does the whole process, because it's not something you walk into your normal sleep store and get you, you have to go through your company. So maybe you can walk people through that process and maybe some of the tech that's involved in, in, in that technology. Yup.

 Matteo Franceschetti: So the purchase is very simple. You're going eight, right? Which is our website. You can buy the cover or you can buy the mattress, you know what you need, Nicole, over character fit any mattress. The mattress again is the Lamborghini of beds. There, the cover is made of cotton polyester. So it's, it's reasonable, breathable. It's pretty standard. You wouldn't notice it. You would put your bed sheet on top of that. And then the is the habit that sits next to there, to your nightstand. It's something you almost don't see. It just disappears to get used to that. And it's really quiet. So it doesn't bother you. Everything is controlled through the phone and through your app. So it's really like we built out our lab software, right. That if we wanted a device that almost disappears and the whole experience is the benefit of an improved sleep and your app experience where you can see sleep and health reports plus control your temperature plus learning how to improve your yeah, absolutely. It's

 Wade Lightheart: Super, super cool. And then what typically is the price points for the technology? Some people are like, okay, I want to know how much, how much is it to give us? I know we have biohackers on here that are like, okay, I need to invest in this. What do I, what, what kind of prices are we talking about? Different sizes and a bed of beds and that sort of thing.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. So the cover, I think it starts around 1600 and the bad stuff around 2,500. Then it depends based on the sizes

 Wade Lightheart: Now in the, on the bed. Particularly with the mattress, like, is that like a mattress set up? Like how does that all work? So people might want to know.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. So the, the bad shifts in a box, so you just receive it at home, you can open it on your own. It's very easy to install. All our customers they do on their own. We offer for some time a sort of white glove delivery, but it was it was not worth it because it's so simple to install it. The bed is made out of the risk form and it's some of the best and highest quality form you can find. We work with one of the greatest partners, multi billion dollar business that they, the point is for me is really a commodity. That is why dumb beds. There are so many dumb companies, right? It's like going to the market. And just a matter of how much we want to pay for the form. Now our case, we just buy the most highest quality one because we are open to pay more for that. But it's like real noise. Almost. You have a menu and you want a great one, a good one, a medium or one, right. But you and I will do the same. We don't have a format. We work with the greatest from experts because price is the commodity. All our expertise is in developing technology that improves your sleep. I

 Wade Lightheart: Got it. Now, do they have variances within the firmness of those mattresses? Because some different people like a softer mattress and people like a harder mattress right

 Matteo Franceschetti: Now? No, we a command one Ollie. And the reason is based on our data, that is what delivers the highest sleep quality. In the future, we might try to be even more personalized and based on the data to try to offer okay. Towards the softer mattress. So here is what should be bad. And

 Wade Lightheart: Then another question, cause I've, I've seen that guy on television Mike Lindell talking about his pillows. W do you guys know anything about pillows? Are you working on technology? Cause like some people say that and I can actually attest to this personally, that pillows definitely make a difference in how well I sleep for head position, any, any data or information that you have around pillows.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah. We sat on one on pillow and it's a very well-received that is still we developed that based on our data. And that is a standard pillow. It does not include technology yet in the future we'll likely do. But it's pretty good one.

 Wade Lightheart: Now it does it. You're still able to read everything now, regardless of the pillows that you're using it, the sensors are able to determine that, that data and information that's super cool. I mean, man, the world is just getting so really cool. So what are some of the plans upcoming for eight sleep dot com your company. We're going to put all the show notes in here and stuff like that. What do you anticipate for the future for the company? What you're working on or developing or where's this whole ship going?

 Matteo Franceschetti: Yeah, I mean the soft, the intelligence and the software experience, it will become a recharge recharge. So think of it like the Tesla of sleep. So through software update your device, you might go to bed with new features that you didn't have when you woke up. And that is the power of software and everything will be free, meaning no, these, these updates, they just can't. And then on the outdoor side we're working on a couple of new products that will take us into direction even further in the direction of sleep compression and saving your life

 Wade Lightheart: Matteo. This has been really, really cool, any final things that you'd like to share with our team, where they can you follow up more information and maybe participate in some of this research, but using your tech.

 Matteo Franceschetti: Sure. Thanks one. You can follow me on Twitter or just go on a on the home page. So you can find my contact details there. Chill. There is always this advice I give we call it sleep fitness, right? So think of sleep as like going to the gym, you need to put the time. There is plenty of medical evidence that sleep has a major impact on your health, on your energy, on your mood and on your longevity. So in the nineties, there was this concept where, oh, I was sleep when I'm dead, that doesn't work anymore. Right? sleep deprivation is the new smoking. So you need to put the time at the same time that you put to train to be feet every single day, put it right to sleep. Whatever is the right number of hours that works for you on average is seven to nine hours for you. It's less. But because now everything is personalized fine, right? But put the time, then never think that you're wasting your time because you're really taking care of your body and your health and longevity

 Wade Lightheart: Love it. Very habit folks. It's You can follow along with Mateo and find the latest and greatest research. And of course encourage you to go participate in this as a bio-hacker someone who is looking to optimizing their sleep. It's a big aspect of your life. And eight is on the forefront of taking all, compiling all this data and giving you the best information that you can to optimize your deep sleep, the time, sleeping your body temperature in a whole lot more detail. Thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. I really appreciate your time.

 Matteo Franceschetti: All

 Wade Lightheart: Right, everybody. So wishing you a great night's sleep. It's Wade T. Lightheart from BiOptimizers. This is the Awesome Health Podcast. If you liked it and ne know someone who might be struggling with sleep, please refer them to it. As Matteo said, doing a little research, getting some data and putting some effort in can make a big difference in your health, your vitality, your fitness levels. And of course your longevity. Thanks so much for joining us today. We'll see you on the next episode.
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