170: UFC Legend Throws Storytelling Jabs & Personal Branding Trips – with Chael Sonnen

He’s a master at self-promotion, marketing, trash-talking, and using fear to his advantage. 

In this episode, one of the most popular and inspiring MMA fighters to ever compete in the Ultimate Fighting Championship – Chael Sonnen – sits down with two of his biggest fans: podcast host Wade T. Lightheart and his biOptimizers cofounder Matt Gallant. 

You can feel the excitement from Wade and Matt as they find themselves zooming with one of their athletic heroes. Like two schoolboys meeting Lebron – Wade and Matt let their “Chael Sonnen fanboy” shine as they pick Chael’s brain. Together, their questions spark one compelling story after another from Chael. He drops a ton of valuable insights on self-promotion, marketing, a winning mindset, overcoming fear, and more. 

The results are a quality interview that you don’t want to miss!

If you are not a follower of the UFC, you may not know Chael. He is an American submission grappling promoter, mixed martial arts analyst, and retired mixed martial artist. 

Now that his fighting days are behind him, he’s an intelligent guy who has expertly built his brand into a second career. Entrepreneurs will love this episode. 

Chael became a top UFC contender in both the Lightweight and Middleweight divisions. Many longtime followers of the UFC consider him to be one of the best mixed martial artists to have never won a UFC championship. 

In 2014, he became an ESPN MMA analyst. Then in 2016, Chael founded Submission UNderground (SUG), his wrestling promotion company. 

Listeners will quickly see why Chael is widely regarded as one of the greatest trash-talkers in MMA history – he has a gift for gab. 

He will punch your ear holes with humor, business skill, branding prowess, and commanding a successful mindset. Enter the podcast cage and do some “audio sparring” with Chael by hitting the play button.

In this podcast, we cover:

• How political debates can help you improve your public speaking

• How to create a public persona to stand out from the crowd

• Why building an audience is a more valuable skill than having the best technical skills in your industry

• What Chael’s physical training days were like as an MMA fighter

• Chael’s nutrition regime as a UFC fighter

• How Chael became a dynamic storyteller

• How to use fear to your advantage

• What Chael thinks about PEDs

• Why Chael likes reading the comments below his online videos

• Chael’s prediction: Will Connor McGregor ever fight again?

“I’ve never seen a football game in my whole life.” 

Right out of the gate, Chael blows our mind when Matt asks where he began learning about the art of self-promotion. 

His answer is surprising. We would typically expect a pro athlete like Chael, a ninja when it comes to personal branding and showmanship, to find his inspiration from something like pro wrestling or other famous athletes. Maybe an olympian or Tiger Woods or someone who has propelled from an athletic career to a successful media career or built a business. 

Nope. Here is what Chael said when asked who inspired him to pick up storytelling and promotional skills: 

“I gotta tell you; I’ve never seen a football game in my whole life. I know what it is, but I’ve never seen an entire game.”

“I bought tickets to a semi-pro hockey team here in Portland, but I didn’t see the entire game.” 

“My uncle won two NBA championships and an Olympic Gold Medal, and I’ve never seen a basketball game.”

“But I could tell you every political debate that’s ever happened: every presidential debate, senatorial, and governors in different states. I’ve always enjoyed the gamesmanship – the fight with no punches thrown. I enjoy the body language, inflection, and mannerisms.”

“So when people ask me about my inspiration, they expect me to say it came from the WWE. I’m not a big fan of wrestling, to be honest.” 

“I learned to talk from the men and women on the political debate stage.”

Chael can’t have any happiness without this one thing.

Chael talks about the importance of preparation, and at one point, he dropped this little gem of wisdom: “Within my own life, I can’t have happiness without struggle.” 

“When I was an 11-year-old kid, I had a fortune cookie, and it said, ‘Rest is only appreciated when earned.” Now, at age 11, I didn’t know what that meant. But as I became an adult, I discovered that I could not enjoy a day off, or a vacation with my wife, unless we earned it. Only if we worked hard and sacrificed could we enjoy a couple of days off.” 

This interview is full of marketing and personal branding insights, so don’t feel left out if you do not follow the MMA world or the UFC. Biohackers believe in taking a holistic approach to health, and mindset is a big part of living a happy life. Chael Sonnen is more than a retired star athlete – he is an articulate business leader today running a company and his career doing MMA color commentating. 

Check out this episode – take down your fears with a bow and arrow choke!  

Episode Resources:

Check out more on Chael Sonnen & Bad Guy Inc.

Chael Sonnen on YouTube

Bad Guys Inc. on Instagram

Chael Sonnen on Instagram

Chael Sonnen on Facebook

Chael Sonnen Wikipedia Page

The Bow and Arrow Choke with Killer Gripping Details

Read The Episode Transcript:

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Wade Lightheart: 321 good morning good afternoon and good evening it's
way too light heart from by optimizer is with my good buddy matt
galanti and, of course, if you notice my voice inflection it's because
we've got a legend here today.
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Wade Lightheart: From bad guy incorporated shale sauna and chill son
is an American submission grappling promoter mixed martial arts
analysts.
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Wade Lightheart: And a retired mixed martial artists, he competed in
the UFC where he became a top contender in both the lightweight
middleweight divisions.
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Wade Lightheart: He is often considered one of the best mixed martial
artists to have never won a UFC championship.
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Wade Lightheart: In 2014 he became an espn MMA analyst and in 2016 He
founded submission underground his own wrestling promotion, he is
further widely regarded as one of the greatest trash talkers in MMA
history and he's taken time out of his busy schedule to join us today.
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Wade Lightheart: Welcome to the show.
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Bad Guy Inc: I was a very nice green I gotta tell you, you really know
how to pick a guy up Thank you what's up.
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Matt Gallant: good to see you man i'm i'm a huge fan me watching us he
says UFC one needs to train a lot of.
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Matt Gallant: An a, in my opinion, you are the absolute best not just
 
trash talker and one of the greatest self promoters, but I think
you're absolutely the number one guy to decode self promotion and
marketing i'm a huge fan of your YouTube channel, so if you've not
subscribed check out chill.
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Matt Gallant: i'm just curious you know where did you start picking up
the self promotional aspect What was your inspirations okay.
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Bad Guy Inc: I gotta tell you i've never seen, and thank you for
saying that, by the way, I knew that that was very beautiful but um.
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Bad Guy Inc: i've never seen a football game in my whole life, I know
what it is, I just went i've never seen an entire game I bought
tickets to a semi.
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00:02:06.750 --> 00:02:15.630
Bad Guy Inc: Pro hockey team that's here in portland I even went to a
game, I never saw an entire game my uncle won two nba championships
and an Olympic Gold Medal i've never seen a basketball game.
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Bad Guy Inc: But I could tell you every political beta to ever happen
every presidential debate and senatorial Gouverneur.
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Bad Guy Inc: In different States I just always enjoyed that I enjoyed
the game as men ship I enjoyed the fight with no punches being thrown.
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Bad Guy Inc: I enjoyed the body language I enjoyed the inflection I
enjoyed the mannerisms and was just something that I was always a fan
of so when you asked me my inspiration, a lot of people think it came
from wwe.
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Bad Guy Inc: I always take that but i'm not i'm not that big of a
wrestling fan I grew up on Hulk hogan a little bit of stone cold.
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Bad Guy Inc: But it was one of those things where um that's where my I
learned to talk to like the guys that were on the debate stage but
guys in the women that were.
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Bad Guy Inc: battling it out, without ever getting within arm's reach
of one another and I just liked that and it was the people that I got
drawn to even in pro wrestling or.
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Bad Guy Inc: In fighting I grew up always hearing about how great
Muhammad Ali was Muhammad Ali had his last fight the year that I was
born, so I didn't get a live through that but I heard about it, my
father would tell me about it, it was always the emotion.
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Bad Guy Inc: That all he could bring out in people.
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Bad Guy Inc: wasn't what he said it was it was how it made people feel
you've heard that expression before but i'm here that was very true,
and there was some golf or that goes back and.
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Bad Guy Inc: I had john mcenroe, if you remember him and tennis but he
could do some of that same stuff he could entertain you he could bring
a commodity, aside from the performance he could bring an
entertainment I just liked it, so I did my best to develop a persona
try to copy it.
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Matt Gallant: So you did craft consciously a persona and again it was
it's kind of bad the bad guy, even though I hear from a lot of people
that know you you're one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet so.
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Matt Gallant: Is that a is that a switch to my friend Todd Herman
wrote a book called the Alter Ego effect D is that something you can
just switch on on command and just go right into that Alter Ego.
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Bad Guy Inc: It was, I had a lot of fun with it, you know the bad guy
thing.
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Bad Guy Inc: And where that came from was just everybody was trying to
be like myself included, you wanted to be the handsomest guy or the
most liked or the most skilled, but it was always on that end of the
spectrum.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I started to realize every movie has a bad guy they
got to write it in but somebody has to play that for every book every
play every story has a bad guy and I realized, there were none in MMA.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I said man, I could be the number one I could be the
number one most hated the number one heel, if you will, in the entire
sport, if I just raised, my hand because nobody else is applying for
the job I mean that end of the pool is wide open.
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Bad Guy Inc: So when I jumped in and I started trying to irritate
people I started trying to get the crowd to boo.
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Bad Guy Inc: It was so easy they were looking for somebody to boo they
were looking to get that negative energy out, they just didn't have
anybody until I came along, so, and then you know if you.
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Bad Guy Inc: To be a heel to be the bad guy i'm using that term that's
a pro wrestling vernacular heel but.
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Bad Guy Inc: To be the heel you got to be able to take it when the
cameras are off you got to stick to that character, so people see you
around town and they look the other way.
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Bad Guy Inc: Whereas, you know you used to want them to run up and say
hi or maybe pat you on the back and say hey good luck, this weekend,
so you really got to live, that which is a.
 
 35
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Bad Guy Inc: Tough for most people, but I enjoyed it the booze or a
heels cheer when I would walk into arena and people were throwing
their soda on me they're throwing their Nice, I know what i'm not sure
what a soda cost at the MGM grand they were choosing to throw it on
me.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I mean I felt I was so empowered by it, I did enjoy
that time of my life.
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Bad Guy Inc: I really enjoy.
38
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Bad Guy Inc: traveling the world and and being the one they showed up
to hey.
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Matt Gallant: Well, since your time to I think the whole UFC self
promotional approach you know from Connor to colby to whoever has
shifted to the heel do you feel at this point that there's an
opportunity.
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Matt Gallant: For a Hulk hogan esque type character or Alter Ego to do
well in UFC and self promotion because we've never really seen that in
my.
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Bad Guy Inc: dorm I well I think it's a great point you know you
talked about the great promoters that.
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Bad Guy Inc: Dana white's or the Scott, or the Bob arrows and dawn
kings of the world, but the world's best promoters vince McMahon, he
is the only one who has taken, something that he is admitted is fake
sold out arena sold a T shirt.
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Bad Guy Inc: To the crowd and and had people leave in tears, because
their character didn't when vince McMahon swears he could sell out
Madison square garden.
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Bad Guy Inc: to watch a wrestler take on a MOP if he had time to
promote it correctly, and I only bring that to you, because if you're
going to listen to somebody and promotion.
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Bad Guy Inc: You can't deny events, and one thing that vince has
always said, over time, is that every character needs tweaked whether
it's a full makeover or it's just a small addition every 12 months.
46
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Bad Guy Inc: After 12 to 14 months it gets a little bit stale and you
have to tweak and i've seen them take guys like a Chris Jericho.
47
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Bad Guy Inc: Take the same guy but put a scarf on just by example or
take the same guy but he he grows a beard.
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Bad Guy Inc: Something like that all the way to all new characters
with all new names, but a little tweaking every 12 and 14 months and,
yes, I do think there's there's room for somebody to do a face term
and go more of a whole cogan route yes.
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Matt Gallant: Good it feels the best trash talker in the UFC right
now.
50
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Bad Guy Inc: Oh well, I think I would have to give that to McGregor I
think he's fun, but one thing that Connor does is he wants that he
works on it quarter would never show up to a press conference not
ready to go.
51
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Bad Guy Inc: And when i'm around Connor and it's private I mean this
might really surprise you, but I would put his personality, as far as
I would call him shy.
 
 52
00:07:19.950 --> 00:07:26.220
Bad Guy Inc: He does not say much he will sit there, he will listen
he's a tremendous listener he's interested in my name is a really
polite guy.
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Bad Guy Inc: If somebody pulls out so much as an iPhone and turns it
on he's on it's a different deal the sunglasses come on the face goes
straight the line start coming.
54
00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:40.530
Bad Guy Inc: In he's a professional all the guys want to be able to do
that, but then they get to a press conference and they listen to
what's asked.
55
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Bad Guy Inc: And I always encourage guys don't answer questions handle
questions, whatever comes out of somebody else's mouth you take it in
whatever direction that you want to go.
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Bad Guy Inc: But most guys will go to a press conference I mean i've
seen people flying to press conferences from across the world.
57
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Bad Guy Inc: Sit down at them and when they get asked the one question
that somebody in the crowd in the media just felt bad for him and
asked them they didn't even want to know just realize they hadn't they
really care they got picked last and kickball.
58
00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:14.550
Bad Guy Inc: They will say i'm not here to talk i'm here to fight and
they'll put the microphone down it's like well no that's not true,
there is no fight here you're only here to talk.
59
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Bad Guy Inc: And to speak about McGregor but a big lesson when
McGregor took on floyd mayweather.
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Bad Guy Inc: They sold out for arenas for the press tour they sold out
one in Los Angeles at two o'clock on a sunny day no chance to the
punch would be thrown.
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Bad Guy Inc: Every so you are there to talk, you are definitely there
to talk, you were there to entertain you're there to evoke emotion and
McGregor and floyd sold out for.
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00:08:37.710 --> 00:08:47.580
Bad Guy Inc: The night they fought contrary to the way it's reported,
it did not sell out, I was there, it was far from a sellout but they
sold out for press conferences there's a lesson in that.
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Matt Gallant: I feel like you've changed the whole self promotion
after fights has never been better, and you know you talk about in
your YouTube channel lot you tell guys hey you pitching your next
fight, so I think you had a massive influence on fighters and.
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00:09:02.340 --> 00:09:09.270
Matt Gallant: I think I think again as a entrepreneur, the biggest
missing link in a lot of fighters minds is they don't get that.
65
00:09:09.570 --> 00:09:17.640
Matt Gallant: it's not your ranking it's you know how many tickets,
can you sell and you're if you're good enough to sell millions of
tickets or pay per views.
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00:09:18.030 --> 00:09:28.950
Matt Gallant: Then you'll get a piece of that, and if you don't well
you know, then you're just another guy in the car that is going to
fill the arena, so I think a lot of fighters don't get that but I
think you're helping them get it.
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Bad Guy Inc: I appreciate that there are some sports that are
contested that way, if you take rodeo by example, my father was a
cowboy.
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00:09:34.890 --> 00:09:41.790
Bad Guy Inc: But when rodeo gives the world championship out each
 
year, a lot of people don't understand this, because they hold this
big event that you nlp and it's only rodeo that's on TV.
69
00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:48.180
Bad Guy Inc: It has nothing to do with how you did it that event the
world champion and rodeo every 12 months is whoever made the most
money.
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Bad Guy Inc: They will total up your prize money, and if you made more
than the next guy it doesn't matter if you can cowboy better than him
or not, if you made more money you're the world champion that year.
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Bad Guy Inc: But I think that's what you're speaking to write them,
and if you can draw you can sell tickets that's far more important
than having a.
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00:10:02.670 --> 00:10:08.340
Bad Guy Inc: Good left hand or a big uppercut you got to have people
that want to come along I know some great fighters by me really great
fighters.
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00:10:08.640 --> 00:10:13.950
Bad Guy Inc: That not only can't make it up the card within the
ultimate fighting championship of the can't even get signed.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it's just because they're not interesting enough and
i've even heard athletes complain to Dana white you don't promote me
enough you don't like me.
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00:10:22.230 --> 00:10:24.300
Bad Guy Inc: And i'll always want to stop them right there go hold on.
76
00:10:24.870 --> 00:10:35.790
Bad Guy Inc: tell me what that word means What do you mean he doesn't
promote you because all a good promoter is is a good storyteller and
all a big fight is is one that has a really good story behind it.
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Bad Guy Inc: So it's kind of up to the athletes.
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Bad Guy Inc: it's a major opportunity I mean there are 1099
contractors, but they need to look at it like that they need to look
at it as a brand in the world of social media and things that you can
do on your own to bring attention and tell your own story all a good
promoted athlete is.
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Bad Guy Inc: someone with a good story, and if that's not you if you
don't have it go out and create a character.
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Bad Guy Inc: floyd mayweather is not running around money mayweather
throwing money and wearing Rolex is he's not if you see him in Vegas
he is when the cameras are on it's a character that's far more
interesting than true floyd so he developed bit.
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Matt Gallant: Of the talk about your training your dining during the
the fighting, I mean again very few human beings have reached the.
82
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Matt Gallant: The level of competition that you did I mean for the
pinnacle of UFC and to me it's probably the year agree that for asked
that question, do you think UFC you heard the greatest athletes in the
world.
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Bad Guy Inc: I think that they're up there yeah and I think that's a
little bit new.
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Bad Guy Inc: I mean, I was a fan back in 1993 when they were just
throwing guys, it was a cage fight, and they were looking at they were
marketing from one more barbaric standpoint, but then you started to
get real athletes Randy couture comes to mind, one of my mentors.
85
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Bad Guy Inc: But Randy couture was a world class wrestler know
Olympian had ever done it yet nobody that you know from the top boxing
 
ranks and he ran he started to bring other athletes in that were
olympians that were Olympic medalists that weren't nc double a greats
and.
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Bad Guy Inc: really start to train appropriately, one thing that Randy
didn't that Randy brought to the sport.
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Bad Guy Inc: Randy went to the highest levels more world championships
and I can count did it light heavyweight didn't heavyweight and he did
such a beautiful career.
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Bad Guy Inc: But the one thing that was different about Randy and I
saw him every day on a training basis.
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Bad Guy Inc: Is he took it like a professional sport, he paid
attention to nutrition, he cared how many hours of sleep, he was
getting he worked extremely hard in the gym but he put a real
concentration on rest.
90
00:12:24.390 --> 00:12:33.390
Bad Guy Inc: On recovery on a day off and what he was going to do,
whether it's ice baths or massage but things like this to prepare him
to go back out there, he was a world class athlete.
91
00:12:33.660 --> 00:12:41.250
Bad Guy Inc: And he was the first one that looked at MMA as a true
sport in and of itself, and I think it's one of the reasons he went as
high as he did as quick as he did.
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Matt Gallant: You know the gsb follow that model as well, I mean.
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Bad Guy Inc: Great example.
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Matt Gallant: So yeah back to you, your training we'd love to maybe
 
have you walk us through what a typical day of training was at the
peak you know from morning tonight, nutrition, because, again, you
know to to operate at the level, you did it's it's superhuman very few
people ever get to that well.
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Bad Guy Inc: that's a tremendous compliment and I will never return to
it if there's anything that I miss it's not just walking in the arena,
or having a purpose or being in the spotlight.
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Bad Guy Inc: It is that preparation and I firmly believe, at least
within my own life I can't have any happiness without struggle
something had to I had a fortune cookie was when I was a kid that I
still remember.
97
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Bad Guy Inc: Was 11 years old and it said rest is only appreciated
when it's earned and I didn't know what that meant at 11 years old,
but as I become an adult I most certainly do I cannot enjoy a day off,
I could not enjoy your vacation.
98
00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:45.300
Bad Guy Inc: With my wife, unless we earned it unless we worked hard
and sacrifice to you know, to get out of town for a couple of days, so
I only bring that to you because I would wake up depressed.
99
00:13:45.510 --> 00:13:52.380
Bad Guy Inc: It was so difficult what I would have to do, every day, I
would wake up in the morning, oh my God I got three practices in front
of me.
100
00:13:52.740 --> 00:13:58.890
Bad Guy Inc: All with my coach clayton hires, who was a military
sergeant in the army, he ran it like a military sergeant.
101
00:13:59.220 --> 00:14:03.360
Bad Guy Inc: When I started to get older 35 and 36 years old things
got a little harder.
102
00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:11.850
Bad Guy Inc: And he was still treating me like I was a 14 year old kid
 
and I was having a hard time getting through those workouts and we
would do three a day and in hindsight, I think we probably train.
103
00:14:12.120 --> 00:14:18.780
Bad Guy Inc: A little too hard, but it was an old school mentality and
we wanted to have confidence when we left the locker room to walk to
the ring.
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Bad Guy Inc: That we did everything we could do to win and you will
ask yourself that question in the back right before your music hits
those speakers, you will ask yourself do I deserve to win.
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00:14:28.110 --> 00:14:40.260
Bad Guy Inc: And there were times that answer is no, and you know it
and it's not a good feeling, so I mean we I truly would wake up and,
as the first thing I would think every morning is oh my gosh what I
have to do before I will be back in this bed tonight.
106
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Bad Guy Inc: And it was tough man, it was three sessions a day two
hours apiece.
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Bad Guy Inc: you're crawling out of there if not vomiting and one of
the sessions, but it was absolutely everything you had, and I do
think, looking back I might have ground myself down a little bit, I
think, maybe, maybe I could have done a little bit less.
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Matt Gallant: Serious three workouts you would do with striking
grappling conditioning yep.
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Bad Guy Inc: that's precisely and we would do one on Sunday it's the
hardest workout have ever done, I had to do it every Sunday, it was
just called the Hill, but it was a two and a half mile hill up.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it was a real gradual climb you started at the bottom
and you get up and you got the greatest view and all of portland, but
it was still two and a half my every single step, you are gaining.
 
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Bad Guy Inc: elevation and I had to have that done in less than 20
minutes.
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Bad Guy Inc: And that didn't happen very often it did, towards the end
of camp, I could get up there, and about 18 minutes, but I couldn't
get that under 20 and I would try every time that we go partway down.
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Bad Guy Inc: We had a run stairs we get all the way to the bottom,
then we had to run sprints on the track, it was it was one hour
exactly but we warmed up with three or four rounds on the manson I was
exhausted, before I took my first step, I didn't do that every Sunday
at 6am I hated that hill.
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Matt Gallant: And so on the nutrition side, where you, you were you
following any philosophy, or just trying to get as many calories as
you could.
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Bad Guy Inc: try to get as many cat well and it was such a struggle, I
was cannibalizing my body, I was weighing about 220 pounds, I was
competing at 185 pounds.
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Bad Guy Inc: So the hardest part was making for sure that the hardest
opponent consistently was making weight.
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Bad Guy Inc: I got a call one time for a short notice fight I was 36.2
pounds over I had to make weight and exactly 21 days, that was a
single hardest physical exercise that i've ever had to go through.
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Bad Guy Inc: Dana white gave me a book for making weight he read what
I had to go through give me $10,000 but he didn't give it to me till
after I made it and I really could have used that motivation like he
would have told me.

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Bad Guy Inc: you're gonna get $10,000 is a ton of money, but $10,000
when you're not old, it is much more exciting experiment and.
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Bad Guy Inc: yeah That was a difficult one, I have one for an Anderson
Silva fight 22 pounds over 17 hours before bands and that was a very
trying one too, but I had learned later in my career like I grew up as
a wrestler.
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Bad Guy Inc: Which is one of the very few things in life that you have
to make wait to be able to do if any other boss anywhere try to make
somebody get on a scale before they let them go to work.
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Bad Guy Inc: They would be sued instantly but for some reason in the
sport of fighting, you have to do it contractually so I only bring
that to you because.
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Bad Guy Inc: The very unique and you'll hear doctors talk about
dehydration all the time.
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Bad Guy Inc: it's very rare to meet somebody that's actually
dehydrated to explain to you well mentally tough, you have to be.
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Bad Guy Inc: To get dehydrated to actually pull water out of your
system it's there's very few jobs that require that so I didn't know a
lot about it.
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Bad Guy Inc: and very early on, meaning my whole life, all the way
through the nc double a ranks, I would just not eat and that's the
same thing my teammates would do we would just stop eating.
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Bad Guy Inc: And once I learned more about nutrition, there was a lot
easier way, there was a lot of calories I could start to consume that
 
were a whole foods.
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Bad Guy Inc: drinking a gallon to two gallons a day really helped with
my body, it just helps to flush it out, as I tell you I had to lose 20
pounds and 17 hours, but I was drinking two gallons that they have
that alone is 16 pounds of water but depending on what part of.
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Bad Guy Inc: flushing it through, so I could really give up sweat
quickly and once I started to learn that later in life, I started to
understand, nutrition, I understand when to eat what to eat a life was
a lot better.
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Matt Gallant: It was that the event, where you just slammed down a
coke on.
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Bad Guy Inc: Stage yes.
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Matt Gallant: Did you get paid for them.
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Bad Guy Inc: I did i've told people I did i've told people that I.
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Bad Guy Inc: was like coke that's a stone cold lie it, but a Coca Cola
taste so good, when you are seven pounds an ice cold Coca Cola, is
proof of God in heaven above.
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Bad Guy Inc: That was my plane it.
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Matt Gallant: was one of my favorite Wayne moments just the way you
crush that can was it was epic.
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Wade Lightheart: It was it was awesome.
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Wade Lightheart: I did 30 I.
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Wade Lightheart: I did.
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Bad Guy Inc: I don't know famous ever spoke to me on that stage when
you're weighing it's like yeah you get out of the way, so the next guy
and he goes.
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Bad Guy Inc: A coke that was already said and I said I could Dana
tastes so good and he's like I bet it does, and that was it, but I do
remember that moment, and then I told people that I was sponsored I
wasn't, I just wanted to cook.
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Matt Gallant: It was a great moment right away.
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Wade Lightheart: No, no, I I can.
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Wade Lightheart: relate to some of.
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Bad Guy Inc: My sponsorship with Coca Cola, back then, is the same,
that is, today, which is, I take a coke up to the counter I didn't pay
the woman for and it's mine, just like that no questions asked.
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Wade Lightheart: that's interesting, can you can you hear me okay.
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Bad Guy Inc: yeah gotcha perfectly.
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Wade Lightheart: Okay yeah I can relate to the dehydration used to do
bodybuilding and i'd have to dehydrate to make classes, but I think
the weight cutting we didn't have to fight anybody so.
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Wade Lightheart: I couldn't fight a bowl of spaghetti at that point,
so the fact that you get in the ring with another killer kind of blows
my mind.
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Wade Lightheart: I think one of the things that i'm curious about and
I think it's something that a lot of people don't understand and I was
able to do it and you've been able to do it, and that was.
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Wade Lightheart: I took it I took my bodybuilding career, which was
not nearly as illustrious is your MMA career, but I was able to
translate it into.
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Wade Lightheart: into a professional career beyond at what point did
you start thinking about how you could take what you achieved in the
ring and take it out to a bigger market and you've been one of the
guys that have made.
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Wade Lightheart: MMA popular that you can take credit for that, like,
I listened to your podcast I listened to your insights I want to know
more about the game because of.
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Wade Lightheart: Number one your experience of being a competitor, but
what point did you make that jump in and how has that been for you.
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Wade Lightheart: For maybe to lay down what that that trajectory be
like for athletes today in various sports that might not be the the
prototypical Gold Medal athletes or pro but turn out to have maybe a
longer and better career because of what they can do after their
athletic career.
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Bad Guy Inc: Well, first, I have to tell you you're a bodybuilder I
wish I would have met you many years ago.
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Bad Guy Inc: wrestlers I wrestled all through the division one race.
158
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Bad Guy Inc: But we got credit, as the experts in cutting weight
that's what we thought that we only got credit for that, because we
did it so people assumed we knew we used to put on those plastic
suits.
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Bad Guy Inc: and get in the sauna and just starve are so we would do
all these things, it was a bodybuilder a bodybuilder named Mike dolce
came over to MMA and he changed everything you guys had the secrets
when I talk about.
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Bad Guy Inc: The gallon or the two gallons that water load we didn't
know anything about that that's a bodybuilding track and we learn
another one, which is the salt bath.
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Bad Guy Inc: The epson salts what we didn't know that that all came
from the world of bodybuilding so when we met my daughter
understanding why you have asparagus and chicken by example, even if
you're not hungry you take you take a few bites.
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Bad Guy Inc: We didn't know any of these things, it was you guys you
guys were the experts, but we didn't know that you went through that
Mike dolce changed.
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Bad Guy Inc: All of MMA I mean he started getting in people's corners
Dana white made a TV show, with him, he started writing books, but all
the tricks that we learned were from bodybuilding so I gotta give you
that credit you guys were way ahead of.
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Bad Guy Inc: US and now we're stealing your ideas and they really do
work and secondly it's very hard to participate in this sport and I
love this sport.
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Bad Guy Inc: But it's very hard to participate unless you're throwing
punches and getting punched that is just one of those things to be a
commentator it's it's hard.
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Bad Guy Inc: And that was really my drive I saw how things ended for
other guys, which is you've got all this attention you got all this
focus and it all goes away one day.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I will tell anyone that will listen, you are never
done with this sport, but you will wake up, one day, and this sport is
done with you.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it really is true and I got to see that my first time
just after college 22 years old, young people, but guys that were real
stars of our team boom their eligibility is out.
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Bad Guy Inc: And life was really tricky for a couple of years for
them, they filled some of those voids with alcohol and some other
stuff there was some depressions and I was just able to see that.
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Bad Guy Inc: I don't want to do that in the pros I got to have
something else I can drink juice and.
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Bad Guy Inc: A little bit of a softer landing for the day when I find
out I can't do this anymore, and that was really my motivation I don't
know if I was an expert at it.
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Bad Guy Inc: But I worked really hard I worked really hard at getting
out there and talking about it or or build it up or promoted just the
way it's something else to do a lot of it was a self preservation.
 
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Bad Guy Inc: mechanism I didn't want to wake up one day and not have
any way to participate, and I was scared of it, and so you know that's
kind of what the the genesis for for transitioning to some of the
speaking, was.
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Wade Lightheart: So what was your what was that a gradual integration,
did you get a break, did you earn yourself, or like how did that go,
how did that move and now you're a brand.
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Wade Lightheart: I mean you're you're you're.
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Wade Lightheart: you've completely turned the tables from you know, an
athlete to where you are today as as one of the strong voices in the
industry, so what was that journey like.
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Bad Guy Inc: You guys are really made I gotta hang out with you guys
more often, you know how to make someone feel good, thank you for
saying that here's what happened.
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Bad Guy Inc: I had a fight coming up with a guy named Anderson Silva.
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Bad Guy Inc: Now, at the time that that fight was signed it was just a
fight by the time it came around it was a world of it was a really big
deal, but we have the help of the media at the time that it was time.
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Bad Guy Inc: I wasn't positive that Anderson Silva knew what a chill
son was i'm not positive when he signed the contract to fight me he
i'm not sure I knew who he was, I mean I looked up to this guy in all
fairness, I watched him on pay per view and.
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Bad Guy Inc: doing all this stuff I wanted to do so, I leave i'm at

the.
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Bad Guy Inc: mandalay bay and they have a convention Center and then
there's a long it's like a quarter mile walk in door, but to get back
to where the rooms in the casino in the elevator so you could get up.
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Bad Guy Inc: Get upstairs to the room so i'm walking out, and I am a
hit I mean I got three and four people asking me for autographs or
asking me for selfies which was like right when the selfie was coming
i've never been more famous in my whole life.
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Bad Guy Inc: These three or four people all turn and join a mob of
people who are circling somebody.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it was like brad Pitt walked out, I mean this guy had
hundreds of people around him and including the four people that were
there, they all left So who is this guy so i'm walking over and i'm
trying to look it's Anderson Silva.
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Bad Guy Inc: So Anderson unlike I was so gracious these four people
were that i'd never had anybody want a picture with me.
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Bad Guy Inc: he's walking he's telling people no he's to know I gotta
I gotta go and he's walking down this hallway.
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Bad Guy Inc: So I yell to i've never come in contact with him at all
our media had never began, I don't know him he doesn't know me and I
yelled but the contract was signed, we were going to fight and I
yelled at him in front of all those people you better sign those.
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Bad Guy Inc: You better sign those autographs Anderson because when
i'm done with you nobody's gonna want your autograph again now that
came because my feelings were hurt.
 
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Bad Guy Inc: I was hurt that the for people, for me, left to join the
mob for him, but at any rate we're walking down this hallway.
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Bad Guy Inc: And he's yelling to me he's trying to catch up to me, so
he walks up to me, but there's people everywhere, with phones and I
know, whatever happens, right now is how this fights going to be
marketed, so I gotta go into character.
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Bad Guy Inc: So he throws an arm around me, which is the most
condescending thing you can possibly do to get ready to say put your
big brother, does he puts his arm around you so he's got his arm, so I
turn it fit I show them.
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Bad Guy Inc: And people are filming it's a real thing, and he says hey
you got to calm down your new at this you got to come down be
professional whatever he said to me.
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Bad Guy Inc: I leave I walk away and i'm smelling this part of my
shirt where his armpit was on me and it smells fantastic like whatever
deodorant he had was some kind of like this tropical it was something
that I never smell.
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Bad Guy Inc: It smells so good, so I get to the mandalay bay and
there's an open bar I promise this story has a point, but I get to an
open bar.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I go up to get i'm craving a Roy Rogers, which is a
Coca Cola, with a shot of Granite Dean, like a five year old would
have so I go get this and I make conversation with some guy.
197
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Bad Guy Inc: And I can tell when i'm talking to him that he knows who
I am I can tell he's a fight fan.
198
 
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Bad Guy Inc: So I think i'm just making conversation with the fan I
tell him what just happened and I tell him to smell my should smell
this so I tell him that's interesting, so this deodorant.
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Bad Guy Inc: The guy looks at me says, can you tell that story again
next week on espn I said yeah he pulls out a card he's a Vice
President of espn and that story.
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Bad Guy Inc: broke me into the business, you asked me if I had a story
that's how I broke into the business i've been with the Walt Disney
company ever since.
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Wade Lightheart: I got one more question in the queue up matt for
some, because I know he's chomping at the bit, but.
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Wade Lightheart: The art of storytelling now there's some things that
I think you that I pick up number one.
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Wade Lightheart: You tell great stories you tell a story very much
like a comic there's pacing there's a punchiness to it and.
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Wade Lightheart: You and there's also you do contradictions within it
almost all your buddies and matt and I little side point for all our
listeners I do this, I do a channel like I do this like.
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Wade Lightheart: hey matt I got this crazy question it's driving me
mad you know, like if we do this kind of stuff because now now i'm
parenting.
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Wade Lightheart: Sure fun and right was that something that you had
innately are you from a family of storytellers was it something that
you cultivate it was it a skill set did you learn it did you did you
study it.
 
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Wade Lightheart: Or is it a combination of all those things because
i'm from a family of storytellers but I got into the art of
storytelling.
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Wade Lightheart: Right it's fun it's great and exciting and you're one
of the best at it, how did you cultivate that skill, because that's a
skill today that is probably as valuable as anything, there is in the
media world.
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Bad Guy Inc: Communication right, I agree with you, and for sure I
ripped somebody else off now I was probably influenced by four or five
people um.
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Bad Guy Inc: I couldn't tell you who it was specifically that I tried
to work myself around but for sure and i'll still do that today i'll
watch comedians on stage or i'll watch politicians and those to be and
i'll steal stuff.
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Bad Guy Inc: i'll grab go I see what he did there I see what he did I
just picked one up, it was conor McGregor but conor McGregor was just
in a jam for getting caught snorting blow and punching some old man
and.
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Bad Guy Inc: I mean this was real estate wasn't good.
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Bad Guy Inc: And they interviewed Connor and he said you're showing
your face when you know you're you're wrong and that first interview
is going to come at you, as a hard thing to do, he sat there with good
body language.
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Bad Guy Inc: And as arrow Hawaii asked him these very tough questions
Connor was just mumbling under his breath and he would simply say i'm.

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Bad Guy Inc: i'm as though he was pondering ariel's question as though
he had no idea this question so Carter you were recently on TMC for
doing illegal drugs and punching an old man and Connor sitting there
going um.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it was just a small thing, but I picked up on it, I
remember studying go.
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Bad Guy Inc: that's it that's how connors going to deal with this
that's always gonna do with this humiliating interview is always
caught off guard that the questions coming up as though this wasn't
all over the tabloids for the last two months.
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Bad Guy Inc: It was small and it was subtle, but I stole it i'll take
that with me and i'll bring up the hmm somewhere down the line, and I
imagine, I just did that my whole life for different storytellers but
thank you for noticing.
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Matt Gallant: you're one of the goats I gotta ask us to me is from my
most memorable fights i've ever seen, which was Silva son in one.
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Matt Gallant: Beginning of the fifth round what was going on in your
mind was it a this i've got it in the bag or though i'm still in the
fight here.
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Bad Guy Inc: So I had no idea I had dominated and that way.
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Bad Guy Inc: The numbers of that fight came out afterwards I hit him
308 times, he hit me 11 That was the most lopsided title fight and all
time now I don't say that to shine my own wheels fellas I had no idea.
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Bad Guy Inc: I came out of the ring that night and the first person I
 
saw was Joe Silva, the Vice President and the matchmaker and he stood
up and he met me at the cage door the handshake and I said, Joe and
sorry, and what I was saying, sorry for.
224
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Bad Guy Inc: Is Joe Silva and Dana white one and exciting fight,
particularly their main event.
225
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Bad Guy Inc: And nothing happened in this match I barely did anything
he barely did anything the crowd was put to sleep that's how I felt.
226
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Bad Guy Inc: and Joe give me a very weird look he didn't respond at
all, he didn't say that's Okay, or he looked at me confused shook my
hand and I left.
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Bad Guy Inc: A guy comes into the back, and they do something called
fight of the night bonus, which is very exciting it's again it's free
money.
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Bad Guy Inc: Guy comes in the back and says Lorenzo and Dana want you
to have this you got fight of the night, and I remember when they
handed it to me thinking they feel bad for me.
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Bad Guy Inc: I lost they feel bad for me that fight.
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Bad Guy Inc: Not only was fight of the night it went on, and won
something called fight of the year, we got recognized that the world
MMA awards was fighting.
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Bad Guy Inc: I had no idea anybody like that fight, I had no idea I
was that busier and done this, many things from I had no idea i'd
knocked him down twice a to tenant rest, but I didn't know it.
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Bad Guy Inc: I was so lost and exhaustion and when you asked me
specifically about the fifth round, I had never been in a five round
fight.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I got confused somewhere within the fight, and I said
to my corner matt lindland what round is this and matt says it's the
fourth.
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Bad Guy Inc: Now that is very meaningful because it's some point but
yours, I don't have to beat Anderson I just got to beat the clock, all
I have to do is run out the clock and this thing is over.
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Bad Guy Inc: I thought there was 10 minutes left I didn't realize, we
were in the very last stands and I don't say there's any kind of
excuse, I say that to illustrate how tired, I was, I was so exhausted.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I had such an urgency, I was so truly scared of him
that I had an urgency with everything i've never moved so fast, I
never took somebody down.
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Bad Guy Inc: So many times, but I did it because I was so scared to be
on my feet with him and it's one thing that after that first fight
that I lost we messed up a second time and it wasn't nearly the same
match.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it was because I lost that urgency I lost that fear I
lost all of that anxiety that I had it had kind of gone away because
the mass was off and i'd been there with him.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I regret that I resented about myself I wish that I
would have been more scared I wish I would have understood this was a
once in a lifetime opportunity I wish I wish I would have really
understood the gravity of it, the second time, but I look back now.
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Bad Guy Inc: i'd love to be in that spot have two months and go
prepare for him, but um you know that's life it's over and I don't get
that.
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Matt Gallant: How did you feel once he got the submission.
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Bad Guy Inc: submission, it was definitely legit like some people were
saying that I didn't tap for the referee stop that I for sure tapped
and the referee said something to me like.
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Bad Guy Inc: hey you tapped her, I thought you said he said something
and I remember looking at him and I simply said, I believe you that
was it.
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Bad Guy Inc: Nothing else was set now what Commissioner came out and
try to say I was arguing, and I was arguing with the referee, that is,
that absolutely did not happen and that official will back me I
understood what happened.
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Bad Guy Inc: And it was fair play, you tap you I mean it was it was
the right call, but I do I do, I still remember vaguely but how
fatigued I was just a five round club, is a very rare club.
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Bad Guy Inc: Usually you don't even get signed for five right, you can
do this for 20 years, but if you don't make it to a title fight you
don't have five rounds.
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Bad Guy Inc: And then to go all fiber it's very rare you'd be stunned
how few of fighters have actually joined the five round club, I was a
minute away from and i'm.
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Bad Guy Inc: Throwing myself in there, but there was a level of
exhaustion the way that you prepare and the way that you manage
energy.
 
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Bad Guy Inc: From a strategic standpoint is very different and i'd
never done it before i'd only done it in practice.
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Bad Guy Inc: So, looking back I didn't need 311 punches to eight
punches I could have pulled things back I could have controlled more.
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Bad Guy Inc: But I didn't know that at the time I was scared I was it
was there was pure chaos and then people ended up liking it after the
fact, I didn't know that that fight kind of bait I lost that fight,
and I kind of have wherever I am today I kind of owe even to that last
it was a it was.
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Matt Gallant: Did you feel like that that night that even though yet
last that you had one that took a while to realize.
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Bad Guy Inc: No, it took I mean months and months and months, I went
somewhere, and I was, I remember being with pat areas and other
fighters and I looked up to.
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Bad Guy Inc: We pulled up and there was people surrounding the car and
I just assumed, it was for them, and I was like well guys good luck
with this and pat looked at me and goes shale they're here for you.
255
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Bad Guy Inc: And I remember I laughed when he said it.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I didn't even know at that moment, it was right until
we got out of the car and they were I didn't know how people looked at
that fight, when I told Joe Silva sorry that wasn't me looking for all
shocks, you did a good job, I thought it was a boring match.
257
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Bad Guy Inc: I didn't realize what it happened, I didn't realize it

was all the strikes to the I just didn't get it.
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Bad Guy Inc: I didn't know what round, where I didn't know, there was
a minute left in the fight which does make it extra dramatic that
there was two rounds left in the fight so I read that night no I
didn't know I went the back, I was, I was bawling and tears, I was.
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Bad Guy Inc: inconsolable by my mother I didn't know I didn't know
that that was one that was actually going to elevate me, I never heard
of a loss elevating somebody that one for me it did.
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Matt Gallant: And it was just shocking to see anybody dominates
silver.
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Matt Gallant: yeah That was the shocking part of the fight that that's
been needed to engage and go ahead with.
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Wade Lightheart: yeah that's that's the fight that brought me into the
MMA I went to see it because I had I didn't actually know jail and ice
like over you know we're kind of hearing about Silva, we seen a little
bit of stuff and then you come in and.
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Wade Lightheart: and basically kicked his ass the entire fight like
this silver guy is not that impressive you know killed his daughter
two questions, though, because it's it's it's related kind of going
back to the current career trajectory which I think is interesting.
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Wade Lightheart: First off i'm a big fan of George foreman and George
foreman talks about when he went into the ring.
265
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Wade Lightheart: Against Joe fraser in Madison square gardens, and he
was worried that people were going to see his knees knocking together
because he was so scared.
 
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Wade Lightheart: Before he knocked fraser out of the ring in two
rounds and he talked about the fear factor, so let me go there and
i'll lead up the next question after.
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Wade Lightheart: what's it like because I think, to get into a cage
like I walked over to the cage over here in here in Los Angeles it's
you know I got into the cage i'm not a UFC fighter i'm not formally
trained and all that, so I got in the cage and I go in here and i'm
going, this is a terrifying.
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Wade Lightheart: just getting in this cage is terrifying I can't
imagine an absolute.
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Wade Lightheart: killer that wants to rip my head off and end my life
is going to get in here, how do you prepare yourself psychologically
for the fear.
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Wade Lightheart: Is it a factor for you are you able to come and work
and do you have any advice for people who are experiencing fear, but
are able to go through it anyway.
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Bad Guy Inc: Sure, so I spent my whole life trying to get rid of that
fear.
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Bad Guy Inc: And I made it a really long way, I mean I couldn't sleep
The night before and things like that I.
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Bad Guy Inc: throw up in the back just because I was so nervous I got
over all of that kind of stuff and I could even have conversations in
the back and then warm up and be a little bit more matter of fact, I
came a really long way.
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Bad Guy Inc: But as I look back my best moments were because of that
fear in my wrestling career my jujitsu career my MMA career when when
I lost that fear when I lost that edge.
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Bad Guy Inc: I felt my competition go down, I mean I felt the way that
I competed, even if I was getting my hand raised it wasn't the
performance that I wanted it wasn't as good as when.
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Bad Guy Inc: I was and all of those senses at a height now, you do
have to overcome them and you got to make that walk anyway, but you
talked about going to the cage I fought a guy on the regional scene
named Terry Martin.
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Bad Guy Inc: At that point in my life that was the toughest guy I had
ever fought, and we were in Illinois in Chicago.
278
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Bad Guy Inc: I walk out there i'm in the cage and i'm the first one
there, this is his hometown I get Brian so anyway.
279
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Bad Guy Inc: Small arena, but it was full and I remember watching
Terry Martin come into the ring and i'm looking around I don't know
anybody here.
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Bad Guy Inc: i'm not getting paid for it's like $500 for the whole
thing all I have it's not on TV my egos not at stake and I don't have
a problem with this guy I don't even know him.
281
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Bad Guy Inc: And I remember standing thing, why are we here Why am I
standing in this cage in Chicago Illinois on a Saturday night.
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Bad Guy Inc: I don't know any like it doesn't matter if I beat him or
I was one of these things.
283
 
00:39:06.630 --> 00:39:15.180
Bad Guy Inc: But that's not a good thought to have like when you're
getting in that moment, and you got your game face on and you're ready
to go and as you're you know you're trying to intimidate him and he's
scaring the Holy hell out of me.
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Bad Guy Inc: I know it's not good, and so I really did have to go back
and kind of analyze that hey, why are we here what what is the reason,
and the reason can be anything.
285
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Bad Guy Inc: But I need to have one, and I only had that feeling one
other time, I was one of my last fights I fought a guy named rampage
Jackson.
286
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Bad Guy Inc: But we fought at heavyweight I had never was a
middleweight so I skipped over light heaven, all of a sudden, I mean
there was a heavy weight and he barely made the heavyweight limit the
limit was to 65 he was 263.
287
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Bad Guy Inc: And I remember being in the cage and he came in second
and he had to turn as he came through the door like he had to turn
just a little bit to fit through the door.
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Bad Guy Inc: took a chain of a you know rampage he's a very
intimidating guy he how old is on the way to the ring is this old.
289
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Bad Guy Inc: And I remember, he was coming through and I had that same
feeling that I had in Chicago all those years earlier and more of a
regional show.
290
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Bad Guy Inc: I remember saying why am I here what Why did I agreed to
this, I don't need to fight it heavyweight I don't need to be fighting
ramp I remember thinking that and go no.
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Bad Guy Inc: You learn this lesson once before you're here, make it
work, this time, but the psychological piece never goes away i've
tried to conquer that my whole life, and now that I look back.
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Bad Guy Inc: I don't know how advantageous, that is if it freezes you
and stops you that's a different thing, but I work with kids now my
high school wrestling coach.
293
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Bad Guy Inc: And I want them to have that I can see that look in their
eye, I can see that fear and that anxiety until they get their hands
on the guy in the whistles blowing and.
294
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Bad Guy Inc: A little bit of a sweat gets going I think they need it,
and I think it's helpful so there's a fine line there on how much of
that do you want to overcome and how much of that do you need to be
competitive.
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Wade Lightheart: very powerful information was there any things that
you used to do or that you coach now for people today to kind of
manage kind of that managed the paralyzing aspect of fear, to the
performance activating side of peer.
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Bad Guy Inc: Yes, and the number one thing is what you and I are doing
right now we talk about it, if you admit i'm scared you took a lot of
power away from that fear.
297
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Bad Guy Inc: If you admit i'm nervous I don't know i'm not sure I want
to be here you take a lot of power.
298
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Bad Guy Inc: away from that emotion and Randy couture's big you know,
to bring his name up again but he's very influential on me and he was
very big into the idea that excitement and fear chemically in your
brain.
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Bad Guy Inc: Is the same chemical you get to decide, is this scary to
me, or is this exciting now i've never fully I.
300
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Bad Guy Inc: don't know if I agree that he's right, but he believed it
he really in every time he would get scared he wasn't convinced
himself no that's excitement.
301
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Bad Guy Inc: And it worked for him and i've been in the back with him
i've been on cards, with him, where I was a Co main event he was
amazing I mean I will see how he's warming up minutes before he's got
to walk out there in front of the world, as the marquee guy.
302
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Bad Guy Inc: And he is very calm, he can really capitalize things
whether it's the way in day okay great that's what we do today whether
it's.
303
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Bad Guy Inc: Okay now it's time to warm up it's time to put my cup in
my mouthpiece and it's time to walk to the cage and then that was his.
304
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Bad Guy Inc: which you get to the cage when they put vaseline on you
that's when he would flip the switch.
305
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Bad Guy Inc: The whole rest of the time he was enjoying the moment he
was enjoying his music, he was enjoying the crowd once they put the
vaseline on he turned that's when he did that.
306
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Bad Guy Inc: switch I had a point in my career, if I may, tell you
guys where.
307
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Bad Guy Inc: I went on a run, I think I want eight fights in a row,
but I became the number one contender up until then I had lost X
amount of fights I believe it was fine.
308
 
00:42:34.740 --> 00:42:39.180
Bad Guy Inc: But I had lost them all by submission in the second
round, and I was dominating the fight.
309
00:42:39.540 --> 00:42:48.480
Bad Guy Inc: And I looked at that on a sheet somewhere it came to my
attention i'd never realized second round submission and i'm the one
winning the fight so I went in and met with a.
310
00:42:48.930 --> 00:43:02.070
Bad Guy Inc: doctor he does hypnosis and I told him that I said this
is too much of a coincidence, I know submissions I don't get submitted
in practice ever I know I know how to stop these submissions but
there's something about the second round.
311
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Bad Guy Inc: that's giving me problems and I went under hypnosis and I
think that sounds a little funny isn't, as I say, but it was when I
came out of that that I went on my run.
312
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Bad Guy Inc: And I was able to get through that second round I won the
first round of every fight i've ever had.
313
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Bad Guy Inc: The second round was my problem if I could get to the
third round no problem there was something about that middle ground.
314
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Bad Guy Inc: And I wouldn't get professional help I talked about it,
just like we're time to here's what's happening to me the doctor call
that taking inventory.
315
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Bad Guy Inc: You know okay you start to assess yourself I got a black
guy and i'm only halfway through how am I going to feel.
316
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Bad Guy Inc: You know, and another eight minutes and you find a way
out, you find a way to get out of that situation and, if I can find If
I could just work through the second round the second I could win the
fights.
 
 317
00:43:45.360 --> 00:43:51.510
Bad Guy Inc: And that's still the story of my career, I dealt with
that every single night, but if I could get through that second round,
I could close out the evening.
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Matt Gallant: I agree 100% and again i've program my mind that when I
feel that combination.
319
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Matt Gallant: of excitement and fear that i'm doing the right thing
and I think you know when you're challenging yourself it's just the
natural feeling and.
320
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Matt Gallant: The gsb was probably the most public guy in interviews
to acknowledge that he was scared of every single fight and what was
interesting about a dsp which made him so likable and humble, of
course, he's a fellow Canadian.
321
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Matt Gallant: Is that he would talk about it, prior to the fight
sometimes you know, and I think a lot of fighters didn't do that, so
there was some humility there, and probably help them manage it, I
want to go back to the.
322
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Bad Guy Inc: cuz you said, George is the greatest of all time people
love to have that conversation the conversation silly, the answer is
George St Pierre, but you are right.
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Bad Guy Inc: George would talk about George took all the power of fear
away by hitting it and George worked with a guy named Brian king and
George turned me on to him.
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Bad Guy Inc: And Brian Cain was very big into the idea.
325
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Bad Guy Inc: That a actions are real emotions are fake so many times
were led to believe it's emotions and its internal and you can
overcome anything you guys go, but what sport is that true.
326
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Bad Guy Inc: What touchdown is based on, or what basket is based on
how you felt inside, whether you were confident or your parents loved
you more or not.
327
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Bad Guy Inc: You have to physically get the ball into the designated
area to get the points and he makes it very fair point, and he
convinced George St Pierre to act because actions are real and
emotions are fake, this is the number one.
328
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Bad Guy Inc: contention of this specific sports psychologists to act
act, however, it is you want to feel if you want to feel calmer just
act it.
329
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Bad Guy Inc: If you want to X care act if you want to act brand active
he assured you your opponent's doing the same thing.
330
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Bad Guy Inc: anytime you look across the real God I wish I was like
that guy that guy wants to be he's acting.
331
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Bad Guy Inc: And Mike Tyson who's maybe the most ferocious and feared
athlete of my lifetime is very open about that post career, he was
scared to death.
332
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Bad Guy Inc: He would throw up in the back, he would punch lockers
he'd been trying to get anxiety out because he was so scared there is
definitely a place for fear and sport that's positive, contrary to
what athletes think it's positive.
333
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Matt Gallant: or go back to the to the weight cutting and actually
talk about you sada.
 
 334
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Matt Gallant: You know, one of the changes for the people that don't
know you sada is considered one of the best drug testing organizations
in the world.
335
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Matt Gallant: And one of the things they did is they took out the ids
as an example, but anyways interval at another time my question to you
is what percentage of UFC fighters and athletes, in general, do you
think are on PDS today.
336
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Bad Guy Inc: I think there's a very good winner sada first came in, I
mean it was as simple as an eye test.
337
00:46:36.210 --> 00:46:45.330
Bad Guy Inc: You have these athletes with them where the incredible
shrinking man overnight, you have champions, who are now competing in
different weight classes and they're smaller and we know as human
beings, we don't get smaller.
338
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Bad Guy Inc: With time so sada was real and it was very effective at
what it did, now the body said changed back.
339
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Bad Guy Inc: The guys are back to their weight classes they're going a
little harder their veins are popping out a little more it's very
clear that guys are finding ways around to SATA.
340
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Bad Guy Inc: But Assad has biggest knock and I think that there are
very good organization in all fairness, their biggest knock was that
IV band.
341
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Bad Guy Inc: Because that was a clue nobody knew how to be through
sada sada is.
342
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Bad Guy Inc: The one that taught us if you put the chemicals in IV and
you flush it with a bag it's going to be through and we're not gonna
be able to catch you nobody knew that.
343
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Bad Guy Inc: We didn't nobody knew that Intel sada came out in bed, it
was the biggest mistake that they've done first off.
344
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Bad Guy Inc: In IV is not a substance they're supposed to be a
substance organization it's a form of administration, which you really
shouldn't be I mean that's weird that anybody allow that to be banned.
345
00:47:32.610 --> 00:47:37.680
Bad Guy Inc: That you couldn't go listen to your doctors, we had guys
outside of training and competition didn't even have fights coming up.
346
00:47:38.190 --> 00:47:42.660
Bad Guy Inc: who got rushed to the er this happened to bj penn and
name that you would know he gets rushed to the er.
347
00:47:42.900 --> 00:47:49.890
Bad Guy Inc: You go to the er the absolute first thing that will do no
matter what your that you have a leg cut off, whatever it is, they
will put an IV in your arm instantly.
348
00:47:50.370 --> 00:47:58.230
Bad Guy Inc: They put a name tag around your resume put an IV in your
arm so bj had this done to him, he then admitted it to Assad, and they
go how many.
349
00:47:59.160 --> 00:48:08.070
Bad Guy Inc: How many did you how many cc's did you have, and it was
over 30 which is against their rule and they flagged it bj penn or did
not do an illegal substance and didn't even know that was against the
rules.
350
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.410
Bad Guy Inc: got flag, but that's when people started to learn oh
there's something with this idea business.
351
 
00:48:13.650 --> 00:48:23.130
Bad Guy Inc: there's something that has sada knows and who solders the
one that taught people how to cheat so when you asked me how many
percentage of guys, I mean it's a very high percentage it's the top
guys have the card.
352
00:48:23.340 --> 00:48:31.860
Bad Guy Inc: The guys that have some money in their pocket same as it
always was but who saw was the one that taught them, you can flush
this out, if you do an idea we can't catch you.
353
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Matt Gallant: Did you ever try a rectal water load said possible hang
upside down.
354
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Bad Guy Inc: I never did I mean i've heard some weird i've never done
i've actually never heard of that one, but I know guys that did that,
before they got on a scale that would stand on their head.
355
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Bad Guy Inc: With the science being that with a blood is all rushing
down it'll throw a digital scale and make I don't know if that's ever
worked, but I know guys that have done it i've seen them in the back
standing on their head before they walk through the current like
fools.
356
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Matt Gallant: Do you think that sports should just embrace P DS and
see what human evolution at its pinnacle could look like.
357
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Bad Guy Inc: No, I don't think that I do I don't think that I do
because you know sports really isn't for the professionals it's really
for the amateurs in all fairness, so when you have something like the
nc double a were scholarships are fought over even the.
358
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Bad Guy Inc: The Olympics, which is a very coveted organization, when
you have guys that are cheating and they're to a superhuman level.
359
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Bad Guy Inc: it's no longer about who worked hard, or who sack it's
none of the stuff that we try to teach kids and some of those
messages, but I do think that Assad has gone way too far, there was an
Olympic.
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00:49:35.610 --> 00:49:46.830
Bad Guy Inc: All around champion the gymnast was 14 years old from
China in 2008 she tested positive for a billionth of a trace of
ibuprofen that has a street name of advil.
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Bad Guy Inc: She did not have the foggiest idea that advil was banned,
none of us knew it was banned as a matter of fact NBC or the rights to
this filmed her trainer take out of a fanny Pack and hand it to heat
it no, it was nobody knew.
362
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Bad Guy Inc: They gave the silver medal to her fellow country women
who accepted it in tears did not want it didn't want anything to do
with it, they banned that little girl.
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Bad Guy Inc: From Olympic competition for life security came in and
removed her trainer from Olympic village for life, I think that that's
silly.
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Bad Guy Inc: I don't think that it should be performance enhancing
performance enhancing or positive terms i've never taken anything in
my life.
365
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:31.680
Bad Guy Inc: Unless I thought it would enhance my performance, I had
to go before a Commission, one day, and they said, have you ever taken
a performance in here and i'm i'm under oath.
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Bad Guy Inc: I said guys i've never taken anything i've never tasted
i'll call i've never smoked a cigarette i've never done anything in my
life, unless I thought it would enhance my profile of course i've
taken it was a serious question i've ever been asked.
367
 
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:47.850
Bad Guy Inc: They thought my answer was silly but I disagree with that
if you want to be medicine.
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00:50:48.060 --> 00:50:56.040
Bad Guy Inc: That can make it to the shelves and get FDA approval,
which is overseen by the United States Senate, the first thing you
have to do is prove you can help somebody.
369
00:50:56.280 --> 00:51:03.030
Bad Guy Inc: I would never go to a doctor and say i'm feeling great
Doc do you have anything that could bring me down a little bit and if
he said yes.
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Bad Guy Inc: that's malpractice, it has to enhance your performance, I
have no idea how those are the words how those are the terms that
we're going by you have illegal anabolic you have cheating and then
you have good, solid medicine.
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Bad Guy Inc: And to combine those two or to take a little girls
Olympic Gold Medal away for IB profit come on man that's ridiculous.
372
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Matt Gallant: i'm going to counter and say that.
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Matt Gallant: In a quote my friend AJ Roberts, who is the world's
strongest man for a short period of time because total power lifting
was 3000.
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Bad Guy Inc: know and.
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Matt Gallant: Power lifting I mean they embrace it all the suit the
whatever in order to maximize and it's just like.
376
00:51:42.870 --> 00:51:52.500
Matt Gallant: If you try to create the fastest car in the world, I
 
mean yeah you're creating advanced technologies that advanced, the
only thing, of course, with MMA is, of course, the risk of death.
377
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Matt Gallant: Which is a big issue and, of course, if you if you kill
someone, which I think is why the UFC made those legal decisions.
378
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Matt Gallant: To to change and go into side that's my theory is that
they were worried about a massive potential lawsuit and they wanted to
de risk that so but I think it was in other sports.
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00:52:15.150 --> 00:52:29.280
Matt Gallant: I think it's inevitable, you know genetic engineering
and other ways with biohacking I mean if you think about fairness is
their genetics that are exactly the same, that is the ultimate unfair
advantage.
380
00:52:29.670 --> 00:52:37.950
Matt Gallant: So can athletes use other things to compensate enemies,
this was my perspective and we're just got a few minutes left but wait
any other final questions from cold chill.
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Wade Lightheart: yeah, I would like to kind of turn over to where do
you see bad guy Inc MMA and Charles career moving now that you've
you've become a brand of yourself you're doing a great job out there,
how do you see that expanding over the coming decades.
382
00:52:57.090 --> 00:52:59.880
Bad Guy Inc: I think I think that i'm on the right track, I mean I
produce.
383
00:53:00.060 --> 00:53:07.950
Bad Guy Inc: Five shows a day in there for YouTube there are seven and
eight minutes long, but I produce five a day it doesn't matter if it's
Sunday doesn't matter if it's Christmas Day i'm putting out five
shows.
384
00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:11.250
Bad Guy Inc: A couple podcasts a week have a good participation with
espn.
 
 385
00:53:11.580 --> 00:53:20.340
Bad Guy Inc: So I think i'm just going to stay on that trajectory it's
it's hard to do, I have to travel a lot, I used to look at travels an
opportunity now I look at as a real burden and less my wife comes with
me otherwise i'm.
386
00:53:20.610 --> 00:53:26.340
Bad Guy Inc: Just alone, having dinner by myself in a hotel room but
i'll bring a cameraman wherever I am in the world i've been in.
387
00:53:26.610 --> 00:53:32.760
Bad Guy Inc: Israel in Australia in Brazil just in the last year, but
I bring a camera man, I put those five shirts out i'm extremely
consistent.
388
00:53:33.120 --> 00:53:39.450
Bad Guy Inc: i've seen some real growth by that but i've also seen if
I let my audience down and I don't bring them those five shows they
notice it so.
389
00:53:39.720 --> 00:53:46.770
Bad Guy Inc: I kind of have a deal with the audience you come to me
each day, and I promise that i'll have an offering for you and i'm
going to stay, consistent and keep doing that.
390
00:53:47.220 --> 00:53:50.220
Matt Gallant: How many hours a day, do you spend reading the comments
and your videos.
391
00:53:50.460 --> 00:53:53.070
Bad Guy Inc: You know I I like those a lot, I like that.
392
00:53:54.000 --> 00:54:06.630
Bad Guy Inc: A particularly the hecklers like the greatest heckler I
will usually copy and paste and tweet out, I really like a clever in
silicon you're trying to hurt my feelings, you probably will, but if
you're being clever with it, I will give you credit.
393
00:54:07.530 --> 00:54:14.100
Matt Gallant: yeah love it i'm gonna hit you with three rapid fire

questions is Connor finished, as far as fighting goes.
394
00:54:14.340 --> 00:54:18.420
Bad Guy Inc: He he will fight again his days of winning ended about
five years ago, yes.
395
00:54:19.050 --> 00:54:20.100
Bad Guy Inc: People another fight.
396
00:54:20.460 --> 00:54:21.900
Matt Gallant: Ghani vs named Donna.
397
00:54:22.710 --> 00:54:36.150
Bad Guy Inc: I am taking God, I am taking that based on inside
information of teammates who saw them Spar together, it was years ago
but allegedly gone got the best of them handily I have a hard time
believing that but i'm told that and i'm going to go with it.
398
00:54:36.600 --> 00:54:42.510
Matt Gallant: I think he's probably the most technical technically
skilled heavyweight we've ever seen since over him at his peak.
399
00:54:42.570 --> 00:54:48.180
Bad Guy Inc: Is the size difference there's I mean and Francis does
have a built in, he is 265 on the dod and guns.
400
00:54:48.720 --> 00:55:00.000
Bad Guy Inc: or 65 sure so well, I mean one connection of court, you
know, and since that day old story and God oh definitely has a chance
here but i'm kicking God, I think it will be more technical and I
think God is better.
401
00:55:00.660 --> 00:55:03.210
Matt Gallant: leaning in that direction to that she might have been
who's been.
402
00:55:04.710 --> 00:55:18.510
Bad Guy Inc: Ah, maybe again inside scoop from guys in the gym and
those to have the same manager and i'm not positive they haven't
worked out somewhere along the way, but they for sure, have a lot of
common workout partners.
 
 403
00:55:18.780 --> 00:55:29.190
Bad Guy Inc: And there are a lot of people that say no it's who's been
barely but it's those men and there's a lot of people that say no,
barely put it to Maya I wouldn't be stunned, I think it was meant as
the pound for pound greatest in the world.
404
00:55:29.550 --> 00:55:43.410
Bad Guy Inc: I have a hard time believing Jim I was only have four
fights can be the greatest in the world, but he might be there's
something special happening there right in front of us, but I think
the rankings are right for now and boozman is truly a today's go.
405
00:55:44.520 --> 00:55:54.510
Matt Gallant: And you got to go this made my favorite interview ever
you know full chill son, he is the most entertaining man in MMA hands
down period, end of story Wade back to you.
406
00:55:54.960 --> 00:55:56.070
Bad Guy Inc: guys are awesome by the.
407
00:55:56.070 --> 00:55:58.890
Wade Lightheart: way just give another one for the bad guy.
408
00:55:59.160 --> 00:55:59.580
Wade Lightheart: Thanks for.
409
00:56:00.900 --> 00:56:13.620
Wade Lightheart: The awesome health podcast with by optimizing just
chill zone and bad guy incorporated check out all of his podcasts
injuries, the best MMA and men, a announcer out there, bar none thanks
for joining us today we'll see you on the next episode.
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00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:14.580
Bad Guy Inc: Thanks fellas.