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069: Bulletproof Biohacks with Dave Asprey

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Today you are learning from the master! Dave Asprey is here to share his bulletproof biohacks with us. Dave is the Founder & Chairman of Bulletproof. He is a three-time New York Times bestselling science author, and the host of the Webby award-winning podcast Bulletproof Radio. He has been featured on The Today Show, CNN, The New York Times, Dr. Oz, and more.

We jump right into the good stuff and ask Dave to share his typical morning routine. He starts off with a Bulletproof coffee, whether or not he is intermittent fasting that day.Then he had his cognitive biotic along with his Bulletproof-formulated mitochondrial stack and CapEx. CapEx was created by Dave because he wanted to ensure his body was digesting and processing fats properly. As part of his own experiments he tried to make himself fat and couldn’t in part because of CapEx.

Another amazing creation of Dave’s is 40 Years of Zen, a mastermind event both Matt and I have taken that has skyrocketed our meditation practices. We dig deep into the origins of the practice and how the event came to be.

On today’s episode, we also talk about some fundamental rules he’s boiled down from his decades of studying meditation and science. The first rule is about fear: all living beings avoid anything fear-inducing so be nice to others. The second is regarding food: lack of nutrients is deadly so you want to be sure you are eating and digesting properly. The third rule is fertility and having someone to love in your life. And finally there is the rule of friend: be a friend to yourself and others, be someone who looks out for other people and isn’t solely focused on their own agenda.

Dave has been working to address each of these. 40 Years of Zen was created to reduce and diminish fear levels. Bulletproof is about eliminating hunger. He goes on to explain how to deal with the other two rules, plus Dave tells us which body-related biohacking technologies he would keep if he could only have three, which three are best if you are on a tight budget and what three things he recommends for optimal brain performance.

We also talk about his approach to stacking, what he imagines the world of biohacking will be like 40 years from now and what’s next for Bulletproof. Listen to episode 69 with Dave Asprey to hear all of that and so much more!

Episode Resources:

Read The Episode Transcript:

Wade Lightheart: Dave, we're here again. I feel like I'm transported into a time machine, right into the Bulletproof lab. Of course I'm all jacked up this morning at my unfair advantage. I got my zinc and copper. I was over at Bulletproof this morning. Slam that back. I think I blew up your cryotherapy lab the other day, hopefully you don't have to repair it again.

Dave Asprey: Did you melt down all that liquid engine again?

Wade Lightheart: I did. And you know, just trying to cool down all of the amazing heat. Thank you for joining us today. Of course I got Matt G my business partner and we're delighted to have, for those who don't know, everybody knows Dave, the father of biohacking to kind of share his insights of where we are right now, but more importantly, where do you see the future? Where are things going? And let's just start with, what did you start your day off with today?

Dave Asprey: It's going to sound a little bit predictable, definitely had my Bulletproof coffee, cause' that's sort of how I really do this and I've been doing intermittent fasting with, or without Bulletproof coffee for 10 years now. And it's the Bulletproof book has helped to make intermittent fasting a big deal. So everyone's talking about it and all sorts of different frameworks, but if you look at the first book that said: Hey, maybe you should just skip breakfast. It turns out you can't have fat during a fasting, and you get most of the benefits of fasting most of the time depends on what you want to do.

Dave Asprey: So I did that this morning. I had some cognitive biotic and I had all the mitochondrial stack that I've formulated for Bulletproof and as some kapEx with it, which is really cool. That's the stuff that you guys make that is effective at helping you break down fat. Even when I was going back and doing the research phase for the bulk of diet, I'm like: Hey, I really need to make sure that I'm taking stuff that helps me digest fat. So I can make sure that when I'm eating 4,500 calories a day, I'm actually absorbing them. And my attempt was to make myself fat on that diet, but it turns out I couldn't. I lost weight on 4,500 calories a day for a longer period of time because I was doing the Bulletproof Intermittent Fasting and all that. So I still do that to this day. I'm about 10, 11% body fat. I have a thing downstairs, that's medical grade and all that. And I vary between those percentages and I used to weigh 300 pounds. So I would say it's working. And that's how I got going this morning is kinda how I always do.

Wade Lightheart: Yeah, a guy that's lost a 100 pounds, boosted his IQ by 20 points, runs a kajillion dollar company with a lot of things and makes an incredible impact in the world. And I got to give a quick testimonial for those who haven't heard this. I went to your 40 years of Zen in February of this year, and I've been meditating for 20 years. I've been to other New York feedback systems. I had what quote unquote would be a transcendental experience at your event. And it pushed my meditation forward, at least a decade, probably two. And I've been able to maintain and keep those benefits after. I can't wait to go back. So thank you very much for creating that space. And for all you meditators out there who think that biohacking is not for you, let me tell you, 40 years of Zen will transform whatever meditation practice that you have. And if you're not a meditator, I think it would might turn you onto the possibilities that your brain has and these other frequencies and dimensions that you are able to access to be able to be effective executive like you are in the world. Is that why you developed this technology? Is it to not just lose weight or whatever, but to just be more effective in a very complex world?

Dave Asprey: You know, the goal of Bulletproof was never to lose weight. It's a side effect of having tons of energy. What I wanted to do as a fat person, you always have lower energy and it's because, and if you're saying: no, I don't have lower energy, actually you do, cause' all the energy that's going into your fat, I'm sorry, it's not going into the way you show up in the world. And that doesn't mean you're a bad person or anything like that. What it means is that there's another level. And I didn't know there was another level. So when I fixed my biology, I'm like: well, my brain works pretty well. I take these cognitive enhancers. I've been taking nootropics for a long time. I've stacked in Bulletproof coffee. And I feel like my brain just works really well, but I've also been doing neurofeedback for 20 years.

Dave Asprey: And I just realized that most of it's around fixing broken brands. Most of it uses open source technology from the early 1990s. And I said: we have to be able to do better. So I hired neuroscientist developers and we developed our own hardware, our own software for advanced meditative states that abnormal brain performance. Abnormal is not average, way above average. And so people think: Dave, how is it that you can actually have five companies right now? So I'm chairman, I'm not the CEO of Bulletproof anymore. So I've hired a CEO for that, but I have 40 years of zen. I have, you know, biohacks the company or, sorry, I have True Dark, the company that makes the glasses that are patented. I wrote the patent and these double, my deep sleep, right. This actually matters. And I just make stuff I can't buy, but I couldn't do all that and do the podcast and the New York times books and all that. It seems like an overwhelming thing.

Dave Asprey: And being a dad and husband, it's just, when you get the voice in your head to shut up about food, what you do with the diet and you get it to shut up about all the other nagging stuff that it does. It turns out there's a lot of energy in there that you were just wasting on beating yourself. So my voice is relatively quiet most of the time, because I've spent what? Four months in my life now, with electrodes on my head, developing the program, doing the program, doing the personal development work. And that's why I did it though. I needed this for myself to be able to show up the way I want it. And I thought, if I can work with guys like you and say: you know what, if I can help you show it better, you're impacting thousands or hundreds of thousands of people with your work. So if you can be 10% better, just 10% better. And I think you'd probably get more than 10% out of 40 years of Zen. And it has a ripple effect across all of the people you work with. What's that going to do? So this is about making people who are already doing good things, do amazing things. And I started with myself and decided it wasn't fair to keep it just for me.

Matt Gallant: I got to jump in because you know, we met at Mastermind Talks 4 years ago. And I, you know, I had done your feedback as well, but 5 years ago, then I heard about Zen. And I went 4 and a half years ago for the first time. I've gone 5 times ever since. And you know, as far as ROI, as far as effectiveness or as you know, every potential brain parameter, emotional parameter and even spiritual parameter, it's been the most impactful thing I've ever done. That's why I keep going back once or twice a year. So thank you for creating that. And I've send a lot of people your way and keep sending more so it's awesome.

Dave Asprey: I appreciate it. And it's one of those things where I really didn't need to start this. Bulletproof is a much, much larger company. It's hard to have it. You guys know there's four, there's five people. There's an executive chef. It's a mansion. We do all kinds of custom stuff. There's a concierge, but that's what it takes. If you're really going to do a decade or two of three of meditation in five days, you clear the decks. Like there's nothing going on, but you, and a huge amount of technology and humans supporting you. So you can go in and basically fight your inner demons and win. So you guys are talking about, you've been, you know what it's like. I don't know how to put words to it for people. All I can say is there's a way that you guys are able to have the change that you have in the world. And it's because of who you were when you started, but you've been continuously improving yourselves through any means necessary. And the same thing I do as a biohacker and that's why I started Bulletproofs. I wanted to be able to show up, however I wanted to in any circumstance. And that means not being reactive to things. And that's the part of non reactivity. And then there's training up voltage in the brain.

Dave Asprey: And so you actually can improve your brain's ability to make electricity. So when you measure it, electrically, it's stronger, but how are you going to do that if you have a problem with your supplements? How are you gonna do that if you're eating the wrong foods saying: Oh, I think I'll be a vegan? Like, I'm sorry, I was a raw vegan for awhile. It doesn't work, especially over long terms cause' it breaks your cell membranes. So what are you going to do? Well, you're going to take things to help you to digest fat. You're going to eat the right kinds of fat. You're going to clear out your toxins. You're going to have the right probiotics, that encourage brain function. You're going to do everything. And you might not get it all right but you do enough of it that when you wake up in the morning, like: Oh yeah, I got this. Whereas before, when I was fat, when I had chronic fatigue and all that, you'd wake up and be like: I think I'm awake. Maybe I'll wake up after my third coffee on my way to work. And then you yell at someone at work and you just don't like it, but you don't know what to do. And I just don't think that's necessary anymore.

Wade Lightheart: Well, you're doing a great job. And one of the interesting things is I moved here to Venice recently to be actually and I'm literally within walking distance to the labs and to do my Bulletproof. I do my Bulletproof golds and my Erewhon stroll. That's basically my life and out to the beach. One of the things I've noticed is, you know, I go hang out at the cafe and meet other, you know, Bulletproof people, biohackers, whatever you want to call them. People who are into optimizing their health. And there's a completely different vibe than if I go to anywhere else in Los Angeles. And in other words, there's a sense of optimism, a sense of energy. Most of the people are doing really interesting things like this as a community that's happened out of this. And my question is, do you feel that in such an increasingly complex world, I say the world is an HDTV and everybody's trying to tune in through black and white television. And that it's our perhaps moral biological or ethical, or maybe Darwinian kind of duty to concentrate on evolving the species? Because I see a lot of people that seem to be going down the drain. And then there's people like in this community that seem to be expanding human possibility. Is that kind of where your direction is? Is that's where the future is? What's your opinion on that kind of idea?

Dave Asprey: I spent a lot of time on this and it shifted just over the couple of decades of this. So this includes going to Tibet and learning meditation from the masters, going down in the late nineties before most people had heard of it and doing ayahuasca with a shaman and traveling the world, exploring what's going on, interviewing some, I'll just call them the masters. You know, the people who are some of the few living masters of lineages from China and from schools of psychology, people translating Sanskrit texts. And you realize there's been for thousands of years, a movement of how do we evolve the species. Except if you say I'm going to evolve the species, what you're doing is you're imposing your will on other people. And what I'm doing is I'm evolving myself. That's how I evolved the species. And I know that I have an effect on the world around me.

Dave Asprey: In fact, I know everyone that I come in contact with has their own impact on the world, around them. And the reason I know that is because we can measure it. We can measure it with EEG stuff at 40 years of Zen, we can measure it with heart rate variability. A lot of people don't know this, but if you walked into a stall with a horse, the horse's heartbeat spacing will change to match yours before you touch the horse. It's literally a field effect and this is hard science. It's not that kind of stuff. So you walk into a room. If you're the person with a calm, centered, grounded, powerful presence, it's electrically and magnetically verifiable, right? And the people in the room will resonate with you. And you know, when I go on stage at a Tony Robbins event and what are going to be doing backstage door? I am changing the shape of my heartbeat, right?

Dave Asprey: Because I want to resonate well with the audience and Tony charges up his energy backstage, the same way, because we know if you're going to interact with people, you do it and they interact with you. And this is actually the nature of reality. So if all that's going on, look, there are people who are here for suffering. Suffering is something that will happen in your life until you get the point. You cannot stop other people from suffering, right? You can work to liberate them from it, but they will do it until they get it, right? So our job, should we choose to accept it, is actually just to show up and be an example of what is possible, right? And when you're the example, and you're saying: Oh, I am going to face the world with optimism today. And then people are going: wait, I get to choose.

Dave Asprey: I can follow your example. And I can choose optimism and realize, wow. And you go to the Bulletproof coffee shop. There's a community of people who have chosen to be highly energetic and to be optimists. And that's really cool and it's, self-supportive. I believe that it doesn't take very many people doing that kind of work in order for it to become infectious. How's that for using a powerful, loaded term in order for it to spread, right? And then you walk into a coffee shop, say that's not even the Bulletproof coffee shop, because you're cheating on me, and you go in and you're nice, right? To your barista and that alone, what effect does it have on the world? Well, a lot of people treat it like it's a robotic transaction. And other times people look you in the eye and they say, how are you today?

Dave Asprey: Or they're just cordial, or they leave a tip, or they do something. If you're one of those people, it spreads goodness in the world. My fundamental belief after dissecting the algorithms of life, both from 40 years of Zen, the books on mitochondria, is that we follow this rule set. And you know this cause' this is part of the foundational training at 40 years of Zen. But I'm going to repeat it for people listening. Every life form on earth, whether it's a sub cellular component, like a mitochondria, a bacteria, a cactus, a zebra… Number one, run away from, kill or hide from scary things. And there's different techniques to do this, right? Different animals do different things. And you do this because if you die right now, it's game over, right? And then number two, eat everything because famines have killed most species, a lack of calories, lack of nutrients is deadly.

Dave Asprey: You don't know this, but your body knows this. And it'll tell you to eat the muffin even if you don't need them off and it'll do it reliably and saying no to that voice actually takes energy. Unless you do some biological stuff, that you and I both know about, to turn off the hunger at it's source. So you don't have to worry about the voice in your head anymore. The third thing, that is also an F word. So, we have fear, we have food, and the third F word is fertility. I know that's not what you were thinking. Shame on you. And fertility is you got to make sure the species reproduces. So if you're not stuffing yourself with food and you're not running away from something scary, you're looking for where you're gonna get some, right? Okay. All three of these are kind of big distractions if you have something else to do.

Dave Asprey: And that is the fourth F word. By the way, these go in order biologically. And if you were to program an artificial intelligence system to follow these rules, you would get the human ego emerging from that. But the fourth one is friend. And what we do there is the same thing that bacteria do when they make yogurt or kombucha, they interoperate, they cooperate, they form biofilms and they specialize, right? So each of us has our role, we work together as a cooperative society. It's not, you know, road warrior and archaic war kind of things. So if we're following all four of these things in order, if we can do less of the first three, then you can do a lot more of the fourth one. And I believe we are fundamentally wired at a subcellular component to be nice to each other.

Dave Asprey: It's part of who we are. So 40 years of Zen is around resolving the first F-word. So you have very little fear in your life, very little reactive fear, and fear is the source of the angry voice in your head. And then Bulletproof has been about fixing hunger. How many times do you think about what's for lunch? How many times does that take you out of your zone? How many times have you tried meditating going: I'm too hungry to meditate, I have to think about food, food, food, food, food? How about that voice just shuts the hell up, okay? I live a life where hunger is just not a major presence in my thoughts, right? And it's very, very liberating as a former fat person. And then like, okay, so what's going with that third one. Having some love in your life is important, but I'll tell you if you are absolutely addicted to having sex every two minutes, right, and you think about it all the time that's also taking off your mission.

Dave Asprey: So I've published data, years worth of ejaculation data and happiness data correlated and cross correlated. How's that for embarrassing, right? But that was in game changers, but it's important. And we have a whole bunch of people, especially now that everyone's in a pandemic where they're spending half their time on porn. You got to get rid of that crap too. And what's left is how do I show up in the world and be nice to other people? And it doesn't matter if you help someone just a little bit and they end up with 1% more energy at the end of the day, it will automatically flow to human kindness. And that's how you fix all the victim mindsets. That's how you fix all the fear, all the reactivity, all the lack of thinking, all the polarization that people have right now is calmness, showing up with presence and to do it is actually work. And that means you just work on you first. You don't do the work on other people. Sorry, that's a long answer, but that's what I think.

Wade Lightheart: Beautifully. And I think it's really important to kind of, thank you for sharing the diving into the overarching philosophy because it's philosophy that kind of really drives a person at your stage of success in productivity. I mean, you could probably stop working and, you know, chill out and retire forever and you know, just play in the lab, but you're still driving and moving forward. Now I know Matt G's got a million questions for, I'm going to cue him up, I don't want to steal all his thunder. So Matt, come on in and unload some of the pertinent points that you want to get across to the godfather himself.

Matt Gallant: Yeah. So first of all, I was a fan of yours back when you had the blog kind of at the beginning of your journey online. And I was a huge fan back then. It's been incredible to see you grow as a company, as an entrepreneur, as a side note. Now I've two two part questions. So first I want to talk about the body. Of course, you're blessed cause' even in your own home, you've got almost every known biohacking technology there is. And the first part of the question is, what are the three things, like if you had to get rid of everything you had, as far as the optimizing the body, we'll get to the brain after, which three things would you keep that you feel the most important? Yeah, anything that's optimizing, you know, the body part will shift to the brain part after.

Dave Asprey: Just for the body. Alright. And are you optimizing for time efficiency, for portability?

Matt Gallant: Again, you got to get rid of every piece of equipment you got, but only three that you will keep?

Dave Asprey: I would definitely keep one of the electro muscular simulators like the New Fit. You can do just about any kind of healing and any kind of muscle development that you could imagine repatterning of the human body with those things. That is a big deal. I really appreciate having that. Let's see, for only going to have three things for physical body stuff. And so that handles pretty much most of the exercise there. From a cardio perspective, I'm not worried about costs or time in terms of efficacy. Let's see the cold hits trainer from upgrade labs which uses cold water compression. It's manufactured for us by a company called Vasper and you put bands on your arms and legs. It pumps them full of ice water and then you ride a bike for a little while that replaces, you know, two and a half hours of cardio with about 20 minutes of exercise, you know, sweat because of the ice. So it's combining cold temperatures and lactic acid levels and actually some very advanced biohacks. So that would give me my cardio.

Matt Gallant: And you get a big GH spike from that too, which is awesome.

Dave Asprey: Big growth hormone. So those are two things. And what would the third thing be? It would probably be… My company true light makes a red and amber lights and I think light therapy is terribly important. This is why I started a company that does that kind of stuff. And with that company, it has an amber light that does specific things for blood vessels and skin that isn't common in the lighting industry like that. So I would say I could do red infrared and Amber light with one of the panels that we make. So I would get my light therapy, I've got cold, I've got cardio and I've got muscle.

Matt Gallant: Now I'm going to ask you part two of the body question, assuming that you were in a very tight budget, right? And you had to recommend three things. It can be things that you do, not do, but what three things you say are the most impact for the value for people that are might be on tight budgets?
Dave Asprey: You know, I do a box every quarter that it's And I've done this for seven years I think now, where I curate really cool stuff. In the last box, I sound something called the Be Strong blood flow restriction bands. And they're probably still honoring the code like Dave or Dave Asprey or something. If you guys want to try that out, but it's Be dash strong. And what these do is they're not terribly expensive. I think a couple hundred bucks, maybe a little bit less. And they squeeze your arms or your legs at just the right level, not too much, not too little to restrict, but not cut off blood flow. And then you exercise with almost no weight. So you don't have to buy weights when you do this, it replaces a big budget. You have five pound weights, it doesn't matter.

Dave Asprey: And then you do exercise and you get really sore like you're lifting something heavy, but without all the joint stress that can cause problems. And this temporary hypoxia in the arms is a major new part of exercise. You just can't do this with, you know, a tourniquet or something. That's not a good idea. In fact, it can be dangerous. But now that that exists, I think that that's just worthy. You can also look at bands, just resistance bands. Those are actually very, very valid. And they probably work better than weights for a lot of things. If you're going to super heavy lifting, you probably don't want to do that. But for, in terms of bang for the buck there, you know, 20, 30 bucks, and you can do most exercises that you might want to do. And then the other thing that maybe it's not within the budget constrains you're talking about, they're at Bulletproof for eight years now.

Dave Asprey: Guys, whole body vibration, the Bulletproof vibe, and that's about 1500 bucks. So that's not cheap, but it lasts for a very long time and you can stand on this thing. It's like going for a walk. You can do squats on it. And studies have come out that your whole body vibration actually changes your gut bacteria for the better. It shakes everything in your body, which changes your cell membranes. There's a PSO electric effect in your cell membranes. So I consider that shaking thing to be amazing. And if you wanted to go lower on the budget, you could actually get a mini trampoline, which is like, really, those are so dorky, but what you're doing is you're getting lymphatic circulation from both of those technologies and jump for 10 minutes while you're watching netflix, you'll be all right. And the difference on your body is really, really profound. Those would be some basic examples. Or yoga mat. That's also something I highly recommend.

Matt Gallant: Love all of those, great list. So next let's shift to the brain. Let's start with, again, and you could throw a supplement in there, whatever you want to throw, but your top three things that you would keep to keep your brain optimized and functioning at its best?

Dave Asprey: Wow. All right. The first thing I'm going to recommend is going to sound super douchey and just going to say: it will not change my life if you or anyone listening buys Bulletproof coffee. Okay? Like it will change your life though. So for me, that's not negotiable. The brain octane oil that's in there provides ketones that go to the neurons in your brain and they will preferentially use those instead of glucose. So even if I had a bunch of sugar, that part of my brain is like now give me the ketones cause' I needed a higher octane fuel. That's why it's called brain octane. So Bulletproof coffee, the combination of coffee and the butter, and the brain octane really for me is the most powerful, smart drug. I stopped taking Modafinil on a regular basis when I dialed in Bulletproof coffee. I took Modafinil everyday for 8 years and totally changed my life. I just don't really need it on a regular basis. In fact, I oftentimes can't even feel it if I take it cause' my brain is like always working the way I want it to work. So that would be one thing. The coffee. Another thing that is for brain function… You're talking about technology or supplements or both?

Matt Gallant: Yeah. Both. We can focus on technology.
Dave Asprey: Okay. All right. So we talked about just getting power into the brain and, you know, from a technology perspective… Like I have a 40 years Zen pod downstairs. So, the system that we built that allows you to do the training and what we call the reset mode. So I can go down and enter very advanced states including some that are… So I'm looking for ability to connect to creativity, to your subconscious and things like that and really just pump your ideas out for lack of a better word. And you guys don't talk about, cause' you've experienced that. For me, that would be a really big thing, but if you're saying for people listening what's the equivalent of that? There probably isn't right now. And I'm working on making that a reality for you. So you could then say: all right, how do I go into these different states?

Dave Asprey: And people will oftentimes describe things like alpha theta, gamma, delta, blah, blah, blah. But that's kind of like saying I'm going on a liquid diet. Well, what kind of liquid? Was it gasoline or was it honey? Cause' they might do different things in the body. So it's very hard to say something like: go into an alpha brain state, because okay, there's many different interconnected networks in the brain, which of them have, which amount of alpha when, in what order at what time. Cause' that's what drives the amazing ability of the brain to do what it can do. So you want to try and replicate that stuff right now at home, it's tough, but you can get meditation files that use sounds like binaural beats. Even things like Center Point which was Bill Harris's company, he passed away a couple of years ago.

Dave Asprey: I dedicated one of my books to him. For 20 years, maybe 30 years he's been using sound files. You'll listen to that, help your brain find these networks in these states. It's a slower process than neurofeedback, but I think there's merit to saying: all right, if you really need to chill, look at these different meditation files, different sound files and consider whether that's going to do something for you. Even something as simple as, you know, Headspace or any of the meditation apps. It's a good idea to have a practice there for cognitive enhancement and those are all very very affordable. And I think I have one more left for the brain. Okay. Let's talk about heart rate variability. This is another one of those relatively low cost items cost around a hundred bucks. And about 2008, I became an advisor to the Heart Math Institutes and they make a device called the emWave, E-M-W-A-V-E.

Dave Asprey: And what this does, is it teaches you to change the space between your heartbeat like I talked about earlier. And if you are in fight or flight, you have a very even space heartbeat. And if you are in rest, relax, recover, make your brain work. Then you go into parasympathetic mode and then you have a heartbeat spacing that actually varies. It's uneven. Sometimes there's more space, sometimes there's less. When you teach yourself to consciously feel the difference between those two, you get the superpower to be able to drop into that calm state, which immediately allows your brain to do what it's supposed to do instead of worrying about stuff all the time. So it's another hack to get rid of that first and most important F-word fear, right? You stack that with your Bulletproof coffee. Now you got rid of fear, you got rid of food, you're going to have to deal with the whole sex thing yourself. And then after that what's left, do something useful for your community.
Wade Lightheart: Beautifully said, beautifully said.

Matt Gallant: Which is stacking. And yeah, I think we have a lot of common visions and philosophies, Dave. It's one of the reasons we've built a good relationship and you're a huge fan of stacking things. They kind of forced you to get rid of all the stuff, but ultimately personally, what you do from a supplement perspective, from a technology perspective, is you stack and… Wade And I from coming from the bodybuilding around, we've been stacking things since we're teenagers. I love for you to talk about that, cause' one of the things you do talk about I've heard you mentioned is that, you know, science does experiments and they study one thing and the effect of that one thing, but they rarely talk about stacks. And I think it's a huge part of your overall approach to things, which is awesome.

Dave Asprey: My approach to managing what's going on inside my body is what became biohacking. And I was a computer hacker. I actually worked for Trend Micro, one of the largest computer security companies in the world as a VP of security and spent a lot of time even teaching at the university of California in that field. And the idea there is somehow I'm going to learn how to take control of the system, but I don't know what's inside there. I can't know, but I need to influence it. I'm going to either break it or break into it, or make it do what I want. You know, I'm going to own it. And well, that's exactly what's going on in our bodies. We don't know what's going on inside our bodies at many different levels. We know more than we ever have in all of human history, but we have this little problem where, okay, the fact that we know or that we think we know it doesn't mean that we're going to be able to hack it.

Dave Asprey: So what we've done, especially as result of pharmaceutical companies, as we say, there must be one thing. So I'm going to test this one intervention, right? And I'm going to see what it does. Now, let's take living a long time as an example. This is one of my favorite ones. Hmm, okay, I'm going to test, let's say that you're in your car now. All right? I want my car to last for a very long time. So for this batch of cars, I'm going to test changing the oil frequently, okay? And for this next batch of cars, I'm going to test changing the transmission fluid. And for this next… And we're going to find is that no car can go longer than a hundred thousand miles cause' they always tend to break. Oh, that's cause' you weren't changing the tires, you dumb asses, right?

Dave Asprey: You have to do more than one thing for preventative maintenance. And we all know this, right? How do you keep your house clean? Do you just test scrubbing the toilets and leave everything else alone? No, you have to do all the things that are necessary at the same time or on the right schedule. Yet when it comes to health and all… Well, I tested this one thing all by itself and it didn't work like, is this a surprise? If you're going to say herd, a bunch of sheep, do you just push on one sheep? No, you have dogs on the edges and you have horses and you have system that you're pushing and managing. What that means is it's a stack. Right? So when I started out 300 pounds, I'm tired all the time, my brain barely works. I think I'll test some vitamin C and it actually helped a little bit.

Dave Asprey: But then I said, okay, I'm going to be scientific about this. I am going to take vitamin C for a month and then I'm gonna stop taking it and I'll start taking something else. And then I'll stop taking that and I'll start taking something else. Cause' I only want to know what works. Cause' I'm afraid, that first F word, I'm afraid I might do something that didn't work. That would be terrible cause' then I will had failed. But I did some math and I said: wait a minute, I have this list of things that I want to try. There's more things than there are months in my predictable lifespan. And that doesn't even allow me to test two things at the same time. Like, Oh my goodness, what would happen if you took vitamin C and glycine, cause' your collagen made of vitamin C and glycine and proline, you might need to take all three to influence the formation of that.

Dave Asprey: So I was only going to test one thing at a time and then the factorial to get to two and then three and then four… It will take you many, many human lifetimes to test the supplements that are available and all of their possible combinations. So what a sane person who cares about results is going to do is they're going to say: can I just do everything that I can afford that doesn't seem to obviously contradict itself at one time and see what the results are? And if the results are wow, I lost 10 pounds, my brain works again, I feel great and my joints don't hurt. You won. And you know what? You might have the world's most expensive pee cause' you took something you didn't need. Who cares? You won, you got the results, right? And it's that caring about results more than caring about being right or being perfect is the difference between a biohacker and someone trying to tease out what this one thing works.

Dave Asprey: The assumption behind my work is that how you feel matters most. And that drives how I formulate my products, how I make my food, my cookbook, my diets, my meditation practice, all of that stuff. That's the most precious thing. What matters most in a research setting like this is actually truth. And so they're going to say my assumption is that one thing must be effective. So I'm going to use my assumption and establish the truth based on an assumption that is provably false. So until the assumption that it's a single variable problem in your biology is just resolved and they're saying, we don't really know this, you're going to continue to see people saying this supplement doesn't work. Like what, obviously doesn't work, right? Just like change the oil in your car doesn't work because the car keeps breaking. Like it's just not systems thinking.

Dave Asprey: And the realms of system biology and AI are changing rapidly. And you have people like our friends where they have a chief translational medical officer. And that's a whole new position, but that's because we're starting to realize when it comes to getting results, you look at the system and when it comes to, you know, bowing down at the alter of science, the dogmatic science that says: if it doesn't agree with what, with what the consensus is, it's not real science, sorry, science doesn't take a consensus. So when it comes to biohacking, you do your stack and you do your stack because it's the one that's most likely to work. And let's say, you're looking at fat metabolism. You could test a CLL carnitine. Say, is this going to help? Probably. Right? And you could also separately test lipase, right? Which helps you to digest fat.

Dave Asprey: Is it gonna help? Probably. But the synergistic combination of the two is mechanistically more likely to be beneficial. And that's the kind of stuff you guys are doing in CapEx. Like what are all the things that are gonna help you metabolize fat so you can absorb it and you can use it for energy? What are the things that are going to be the speed bumps and the roadblocks and the inhibited parts and how do we get you enough nutrients to get past this? That's a stack that's designed to get a result rather than designed to prove that one thing is better than another.

Wade Lightheart: Well said. We share that. I remember when my university education, I found that this a very compartmentalized component, but there was no synergy between these opposing departments, even though there's obvious synergy within the body, which leads me to my next kind of, it's more of a hacking question because I was over to the labs the other day. They just closed down Gold's gym again.

Dave Asprey: Yeah. Well they went bankrupt too.

Wade Lightheart: Yeah. So totally devastated. And I'm like, well, what new training modality could I implement cause' we've got to be adaptable during this component? And looks like Bulletproof labs is going to be able to stay open. And they shared with me that you were talking about the C vac with an oxygen program combination. So there's training with oxygen. It's super saturated in depletion. I don't want to steal, like, can you explain? And I said, well, Dave said, you've got to do both. So I would like for you to explain the name of the technology, what you're suggesting to do and then how to get the best results? Because I would like to go do that experiment, cause' I lift weights a lot, but now I can't lift weights at the gym. So I'm like: Hey, let's try this thing.

Dave Asprey: Got it. So if you go into upgrade labs and right now we are still open because we're not a gym or a recovery facility where people are going to become more resilient. And we actually have never been a gym. Exercise is not the point there it's more rapid recovery and I mean human stress recovery, not you know, medical recovery or stuff. And what happens in this thing called the Atmosphere Excel trainer as you mentioned, the air pressure gets changed and it's changed relatively rapidly. And instead of more pressure, which is a hyperbaric, is it actually can take you as high as Mount Everest. And it's exercising yourselves by changing them. They get big, small, big, small, big, small with different patterns and has all kinds of cellular benefits, nitric oxide benefits, circulatory benefits that are truly systemic.
Dave Asprey: And that is I think, a very important technology for people who are recovering from any kind of thing that put a stress on their cardiovascular system, on their arteries, or just any time your cells aren't working very well. So we're talking about people who've already recovered from any kind of toxic mold exposurea virus or bacteria in anything like that, mercury poisoning, whatever. And so like: okay, I've gotten rid of whatever the problem was, but I still don't feel like myself, how do I make my cells back to the way they were? This is a really cool tech and it's very unusual. It's actually quite an expensive piece of equipment because it uses the same seals that space X uses for, you know, stuff they're sending into space because you wouldn't want to be at the height of Mount Everest and have a leak, right?

Dave Asprey: And then the other thing that we do is called intermittent hypoxic training there. And intermittent hypoxic training is interesting on that, you get on an exercise bike and you breathe air that has no oxygen in it. And you're saying: what? Well, when you do that, you can reliably as you'd expect, drop your blood oxygen levels down to a pretty low amount. So sometimes we target in the high eighties. Normally you're pretty much going to go to the ICU if you're below 90. In fact, a lot of people are using pulse like seminars now with COVID. Because if COVID damages hemoglobin and all you can be walking around and you're at 90 blood oxygen, you should be at 98 or 99. And so that's a good sign that you need to go to the hospital. Do not go anywhere else because there's a problem.

Dave Asprey: Well, what we're doing is we're taking people who have nothing to do with COVID, healthy people. And we're saying: well, if we briefly exposed you to that kind of stress while you're exercising, and then as soon as you hit that point, we switch over and you breathe pure oxygen. What we're doing is we're telling the cells like you better get ready to handle hypoxia. Any of you who are even slightly weak, get out of Dodge, you're going to die and be replaced by a young, healthy, strong cell. So it's very much like weightlifting for the oxygen system of your body. And I think that's just fundamental. This is tied to those Be Strong bands I mentioned earlier, for blood flow restriction, but exposing yourself to this triggers a compound called a Hif 1 alpha - hypoxic inducible factor 1 alpha. And it turns out there's a few other things to do that: infrared saunas or any sauna will raise Hif 1 alpha levels. Exercise to a certain extent will. But there's nothing like briefly going into hypoxia and then coming back.

Dave Asprey: And I know so much about this, because I actually used to do high-altitude mountaineering. And when you have toxic mold poisoning and chronic fatigue syndrome, like I did have, when I weighed 300 pounds, you have something pseudo hypoxia throughout your body. A lot of that musculoskeletal pain comes from a lack of blood circulation, or you actually are getting blood there, but the cells can't use oxygen because the cellular machinery itself isn't working right. And a lot of my work has been how do I fix that cellular machinery so that it works right? And now that it works, how do I make it stronger than mother nature intended? This is very different from, you know, going up to high altitude to train high and live low and or train low live high, whatever the people did in the nineties. You don't really need to do that.

Dave Asprey: What you need is brief exposure to hypoxic environments, and we can do that. And we can do that at upgrade labs, where you come in, you hop on the bike, you do it, you will sweat. It is a serious workout. It's one of the few things that actually makes you sweat there. And it's not meant to be a body workout at all. It's a cellular workout so that you recover faster and better from everything. So I've got that downstairs. And the combination of those two, I think is fundamental to having really strong arterial performance, which is going to help you with one of the four big causes of aging. There's another tech you can use called Pulse Wave Analysis, which is a reliable indicator of how healthy your cardiovascular system is. And you can plot how flexible your arteries are based on a curve on your age.

Dave Asprey: According to the data, my arteries are 27 years old. Okay, it's roughly half of my age. And it varies on a day to day basis and plus, or minus three or four years, just depending on individual variations. But so I've actually hit where they're exactly 50% of my age. So, alright. That's pretty solid. I think something I'm doing is working, especially given that I have the genes… It's gonna be called the DNA company that I've been working with for awhile on functional genomics. And they looked and like: Dave, you have the cardiovascular risk genes. You're in the 7% highest risk. And yet I have the youngest arteries. That's pretty crazy. What's going on there? I'm pretty sure this intermittent hypoxic training, the atmospheric cell training from upgrade labs, as well as the Bulletproof diet, as well as appropriate supplements, including I take some of the things that you guys make. It's really important. And you stack all that stuff up. Which one mattered?

Dave Asprey: It's a dumb question, but that's the question that every hundred million dollar study out there tries to answer. And it's the same question that all the supplement critics, that people who usually are criticizing it because of either their ego or because of who's paying them. They will criticize and say: well, that one doesn't do anything. Knowing full well that, of course it doesn't.

Wade Lightheart: What's the timeframe to get a positive, adaptive response using that technology? What do you feel is..?

Dave Asprey: You will see changes in the very first time. If you walk out of the atmospheric cell trainer, usually you feel a little bit euphoric and you just feel really good. It's changing your nitric oxide levels in a positive way, sometimes even in the very, very first session. And if you do say 10 sessions on that, it's transformative.

Dave Asprey: And I like to see people do at least 10 sessions on it over the course of a week or two. You can pair that with something like hyperbaric oxygen, and it takes 40 sessions of that in order to really you'll feel it earlier then that, but 40 sessions is kind of therapeutic. And I've seen with inner hypoxic training if you do it every day for 15 daysyou'll be pretty much acclimated to a very high altitude. You'll have an oxygen carrying system that's amazing. And that should stick around for about a month. And if you do it, maybe once a week after that, you'll just consistently maintain this level of, you know, superhuman oxygen processing that is invisible, except you feel it all the time.

Wade Lightheart: Really excited about giving that one a whirl of the talking with your staff today, when I go there for my second Bulletproof of the day.

Dave Asprey: We'll hook you up. And it's really cool to not be a gym which are oftentimes shut down. So we're able to enable a social distancing. In fact, it works very well. It's just the way things are. And so we have the masks and the cleaning protocols and all that, but because it's not one of those "let's pack ourselves in and do yoga", it's very spacious filtered air and it's recovery technologies that generally aren't requiring the healthy breathing, or if so, there's a mask involved. So I feel really good about our ability to help people stay strong.
Wade Lightheart: It's great. And by the way, your staff is extraordinary. Every facility I've been to, your staff is… I go: what is he doing to hire people? Because you really attract the best of the best.

Dave Asprey: Oh, thank you, Wade. There's a culture and mission thing. And everyone who comes there knows they're helping people. And if they're new to biohack and they're new to Bulletproof, they either go: Oh my God, I've been looking for this my whole life, I'm all in. Or they self select out, like: I feel too weird here. And like, if you feel weird and you're not going to step it up, you're not going to fit in. So you'll find a job somewhere where you can slap pancakes down on a grill and be happy with it. And that's totally cool too.
Wade Lightheart: Matt, I know you've got some more questions, so go for it.

Matt Gallant: Yeah. First of all, just to comment on the CVAC , probably my favorite technology at labs. And usually before Zen, I go to LA for a week and run the CVAC everyday. By the third session, you really start feeling the mitochondrial boost.
Dave Asprey: Get this Matt. We are opening a 40 years of Zen, and upgrade labs, and a Bulletproof cafe, and my office in downtown Victoria. And so we're in the buildout phases now. So what'll end up happening is when you come to our flagship location, you'll be able to do the rotations between the upgrade labs gear and the 40 years of Zen. So I'm pretty stoked on that as well. But you're wise to go in and just like, get everything at its maximum and then go do the training on the brain because you'll get the best results you can that way.

Matt Gallant: Yeah, it's been a big impact. I've got a big question and I know you're a futuristthat's part of your wiring. So I like to fast forward 20 years from now and do your best to imagine what by optimization, biohacking and your life's going to be like? Cause' I know you're, we're all aiming to live well into our 150, 200 years old. Love to hear what you think life's going to be like in 20 years in terms of supplements, technology, genetic engineering. I mean, I know you're on the bleeding edge of all kinds of things. So let's fast forward to the future.

Dave Asprey: We're at an inflection point for what the future looks like, and it's one of two possibilities and it may depend on what country you live in. So one possibility here is that all of this amazing biohacking data and health data gets owned by either companies who use it against you, but they'll give you of the final report, but they'll use it and they'll change your insurance. You know, they'll change your taxes even based on your biological data. And then the other one is the government owns all the data and pretty much does the same thing. And the direction it's going in the US is it's private companies who have all of your data. And in some other countries that are more authoritarian, what you end up with is: Oh, this is government property. And you know, if you don't have the behaviors that you want or that we want, essentially, we lock you out. In the US it'll just be, we charge you so much you can't do anything.

Dave Asprey: And in other countries that'll be like that. So what's happening in the next 20 years is, are we going to decide that control of your own biology is a fundamental human right? When that supersedes even the constitution of the US, something that is, you know, war crime level things where, you know, thou shalt not cross anywhere on the planet. Even if we do that, though, there are lots of war crimes that are perpetrated today around the planets where people may get punished 10, 20 years from now, but we still have people who spend a lot of time in that first F word. So, I think it's a time where you pay attention to all the data you're getting and you say: is this my data? And you insist that it's your data and that you have sovereignty over that and you control it. And that gives you medical freedom.

Dave Asprey: It also means that if you want to say: Oh, something isn't working, I choose to be abnormal. Then you are allowed to do that. Because guess what? The people who get an A in school are… They're abnormal. The people who are normal, they get a C, because that's what average looks like. And we're at a place where we could take all of this amazing biological data and we could use it to stamp out anyone who performs above the average go: Oh, that's not normal here let's just tweak a setting, there, there you go. Now your average, and there's a word for a world like that, it's called hell. So I don't want us to go down that path. What I want us to be able to do and the reason that I have created this biohacking thing is that what hackers have done since the beginning of hacking is they've said: oh, we've got this. Let's create the alternative.

Dave Asprey: So you look at something like Linux, the operating system. For years it was Microsoft was the only operating system in town and something called UNX, but you could never see what it did cause' it was all hidden. And then one guy stands up and says: I'm just going to make my own operating system. Does anyone want to help? Right? And now there's a movement. There's a community of people who now allow you to look under the hood. So I am going to say that over the next 20 years, we're going to see more and more people, not realizing how much of their data is being gathered, but they're also going to say I have a right to see my data and to use it as I choose. And that'll be interesting. And let's look at what it looks like as a biohacker. We're already getting there.

Dave Asprey: The new health intelligence tests from Viome is an example. With this test, they're looking at the RNA, the functional genomics coming off of your mitochondria, as well as off what's in your gut bacteria. And they're running it through advanced AI algorithms. And these algorithms have already discovered 10,000 new species that live in the human gut that have been added to our database of knowledge. That's kind of legit science for one company. In fact, it's amazing. But the new health intelligence tests will tell you, where my mitochondria failing? What's working? What's not working? And then they tell you customized food plans that go beyond just what's in your gut. It's like, what's in your gut plus what's going on in your cells right now. That is only going to get stronger and stronger. And the companies having the biggest data set will be able to offer you the most knowledge. The plan with 40 years is Zen there is, when it comes to altered high-performing and states, we have a very big database and we're growing more of that so that when you come in, we can say, all right, let's do the opposite of average for you.

Dave Asprey: Let's put you standard deviation above average for your superpowers. And again, you have to be able to compare it in sometimes in real time, but against very huge amounts of data. And where we're going to end up with is, oh, you know what works for you? And we're going to disprove some major, major beliefs that are out there around nutrition, around lifestyle and the things where the pundits have always said: Oh, exercise more. It doesn't work. Like exercise is good for you if you need exercise. And the number of people and you guys, you know, some of the guys like this. Oh, I'm going to be a CEO. I fly around the world every month, you know, on my jet. Oh, and I'm gonna run an iron man triathlon.

Dave Asprey: Oh, and I have a bad marriage. You know, like, let me just check this out. You have a little belly forming there and you can't get it up in the morning, right? And they like: how did you know? Well, it's because you're over-training like you needed to take a nap. You didn't need to lift something heavy today. You didn't need to go, you know, crank out another 20 miles. Right? So the mantra, the belief system just doesn't match the data. And the data is going to be increasingly free and increasingly effortless to get. So you can just say what I'm doing, doesn't work. And will lose the shame over what I'm doing didn't work. It's because it's just hardware. It's not about: Oh, it's a moral failing. And if you just felt like you couldn't put the donut down?

Dave Asprey: Fine, it's one of two things. You have a biological problem, or your cells are literally starving. And then you have to find out why, or you have an emotional issue. Right? And you gotta find out why. And we're making great progress on the emotional side of that at 40 years of Zen and on the biological side of that stuff, I think that health intelligence test is going to work. You can try the Bulletproof diet. You can say, you know what, given just the powers of basic deduction with no test at all I think I have a problem with fat metabolism. Let me try a supplements that's going to help me with that. Or I think I've a gut bacteria problem. Let me try P30M and just push out whatever bad stuffs in the gut. Stuff like that is reasonable to do right now. But in the future, it may be as simple as, you know, you flush your toilet and it says you should take a P30M. Did not know what you did last night, but it wasn't good.

Dave Asprey: Right? And there's nothing wrong with that world. That's the world we want to live in, where everything is wired to make you perform at your best when you want to. And you get to decide what's important to you. That's the world that I'm working to create. What I'm a little bit worried about is… Right now, the webcams that are looking at you. And in my case, it's not really a webcam, it's a higher end camera. If you run the right algorithms on them, or even something like an Xbox cam and X-Box camera, they can look and see your heart rate from what's happening inside your retina, very micro pulsations from your skin, a high quality microphone can pull this out. And so there's all kinds of signals coming off your bodies right now that you're entirely unaware of that you can gather using AI and image recognition.

Dave Asprey: Now that's super cool because already walking down the street, if you give me the right computer power and the right cameras, I can pick out which people have Parkinson's or Alzheimer's about to happen. People can pick out which people are on drugs. There's all kinds of data just in how you move. Well, this data is all getting liberated and unlocked, and it's an amazing thing, but it means we're going to have to face things like stigmas, right? Oh, is this person on drugs? There's probably a reason. It's either trauma or it's biological, they're self-treating, something wrong with their brain. It's always one of those two. So we can just stop judging people and assuming we have so much control of ourselves when we don't. Our environment controls us, we just build an environment that makes people awesome.

Dave Asprey: Are we going to go there? I don't really know. I'm always optimistic. I'm always hopeful for the future and I see the path. I also see people just, who are so triggered in fear that they stop thinking. And that is not how to be a successful human being. You've gotta be able to say: Oh, look, there's something scary, I'm going to choose what to do. But if instead you say: I'm going to stop thinking and do what I'm told. That's not a good choice either, because what you're told may not be exactly the right thing to do. But if you stop thinking, you'll never know. So it start thinking and then probably do what you're told if it makes sense. But if what you're being told to do, actually isn't based on science or it's based on flawed science, you have a fundamental human right to say, I am not going to do that, whatever it is.

Dave Asprey: I'm not talking specifically about anything and you're all going what's he talking about here? It doesn't matter. So I'm not taking a stance against or for whatever the hell you think I just said. All I'm saying is that every single thing you decide, that you put on your plate, everything you bring in through the door of your house, everything that you do at the doctor's office, everything you do at the gym, everything you do at the massage parlor where you're getting a massage, because you have lymphatic drainage lumps, all of those are part of what I'm talking about.

Wade Lightheart: Constitution of a human biology. Last question, cause' I want to be mindful of your time. What's next for Dave Asprey, the Bulletproof brand, or maybe anything on the projects are doing that you can share with us? Cause' I know you're literally in the lab right now, cooking up something. So what's next for you?

Dave Asprey: Well, Bulletproof is doing really well and we've got some amazing new stuff that's about to come out the door. And I'm actually really excited to be able to share that when it's public. And in terms of my other portfolio companies, we are really accelerating things with True Light. The company that makes… Our True Dark makes the glasses, and True Light makes the light bulbs that go along with this. So we've got a circadian lighting systems now that are out there that are really, really powerful. And from 40 years Zen, perspective, we're building our second location and it's being built basically in a raw building, which means we can do everything exactly the way we want. So for me, having where I live, where I work, not having to fly to LA every time to have the full upgrade labs, the full 40 years of Zen and the full cafe together is going to be a really powerful place for innovation.

Dave Asprey: I'll be running the podcast out of there and actually being able to do live Q&A from people who are at the coffee shops, which is also something that's gonna be really cool. I'm working on my latest book. It's about six days away from being sent into the publisher. That'll come out in February. And the idea here is I really enjoy helping people. I enjoy teaching. So I'm doing a lot more to engage with people who follow me on Instagram and Facebook, and listen to the podcast and all of that. So I'm putting together some guided challenges, some more knowledge around the human performance institute. And if you're hearing all this going: what the heck my head is spinning. I have a team outside of Bulletproof that supports my portfolio companies and all of these companies have a mission. It's all meaningful.

Dave Asprey: And my job is to show up and lead and to teach and to share knowledge. So I'm finding more interesting and amazing guests on the show. I feel like the level of people I'm interviewing has gone up in a way that's hard to explain, but I'm finding people who are masters of their things in the true traditional word of being a master. So it's more learning and more sharing is where I'm focusing. Cause' running a big company is actually a huge pain in the ass. It takes a lot of time. So this pandemic is giving me a chance to stay in one place, do a little bit of strategic planning and really figure out how to share at scale of people so that it works, it changes things rather than just sort of being, you know, more productivity porn. I'm not that interested in that space.

Wade Lightheart: So where can people reach you, find out more about the projects you're evolving or follow some of the latest integrations that you are sharing?

Dave Asprey: You know, the most important place to go is And that's going to let you sign up for my email, because there's something not so good happening right now. If you talk about certain things that are scientifically valid things like, maybe ozone therapy. Ozone therapy has been used since world war one. At this point it's well validated by more than a thousand studies. But if you talk about it, your SEO rankings plummet. So the people who decide what is truth and what isn't truth are not using science for that whatsoever. They will say they are, but they simply aren't, they're using consensus. And what that means is that there's stuff I won't post on social and there's stuff I won't write about on my blog because Google or Facebook will punish you for it. So I'll just email to you. The good old fashioned way, cause' email is very hard to censor. So, sign up for my list, I'll email you and tell you when the latest podcast comes out. I'll also tell you this stuff that I didn't say because I wasn't allowed to. So that's the best way and follow me on Instagram, Dave.asprey. I post a lot of stuff there. And listen to Bulletproof radio because why that's where twice a week, all the good stuff happens.

Matt Gallant: And pick up Dave's books. My two favorites, probably "Superhuman" and "Headstrong". So I mean, all your books are awesome, but those two are my favorites.

Dave Asprey: Thank you. Those two are very unique and so much research went into those. So I would say those two are also on my favorites list, Matt. So thank you.

Wade Lightheart: Any last words of wisdom for our listeners that you'd like to share or?

Dave Asprey: Just of all the things we talked about… You don't have to buy anything, right? The number one thing is you're wired to be kind to other people and every time you are not kind to other people, it's either a hardware problem or a software problem and they're both more hackable now than they ever have been in all of human history. All you gotta do is do the work.
Wade Lightheart: Thank you, Dave. You've been a big inspiration for both Matt and I for many years, and I've really appreciated how you've given a shout out to our company on a variety of things. And of course, just doing the things that you do providing all of these insights, labeling this concept of biohacking and taking people out of what I would say, proliferation of the victim mentality and engaging in a systematic thinking process, philosophical process, and an actual physiological action process that allows people to really unlock and access their human biology and therefore their human potential. And for that, I think you've done a great service to the world and I want to continue to wish you and send you all the best vibrations and gratitude for what you're doing because the world needs people like Dave Asprey, because what you do on a daily basis just has such a powerful cascade effect. So thank you so much for your contribution to humanity itself.

Dave Asprey: Thank you, Wade. And thank you, Matt. You guys keep making good stuff. I appreciate what you're doing to contribute as well. And you know, there's a big team of people out there making the world a better place. So it's happening even if right now you don't read about it on the news… Just don't read the news. It'll make you happier

Wade Lightheart: There you have it. Dave Asprey from Bulletproof Labs. He's the man that we all need to follow. Make sure you get on that email list because you want to know the deep down dark secrets that Google doesn't want you to find out about. Thanks so much for joining us for another Awesome Health podcast with BiOptimizers for. It's Wade Lightheart, Matt G. Thank you, Dave Asprey. We'll see you on the next episode.
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