How does retraining your brainwaves for your best health work? Here to tell us is our guest on today’s show, Patrick Porter, PhD. He is blazing the trail in the brainwave entrainment world. He and his team of scientists and mindfulness experts have created BrainTap, an app with over 1,000 guided-audio programs designed to help users find their ideal health through sleeping better, achieving and maintaining weight and health wellness and revitalizing their cognitive performance.
On episode 64 of Awesome Health Podcast, Patrick starts by telling us how BrainTap Technologies came into existence.
His company has its roots in Patrick’s childhood. His father was a seminar leader on The Silva Method and Patrick helped his dad whenever he could even when he was in college later. Patrick studied electronics and continued to work with his dad when he could because he loved helping people. When he took a job at Light and Sound Research as a research scientist he expanded his knowledge of electronics and the science of the brain and brainwave patterns.
All of those experiences set the foundation for BrainTap.
Next I asked Patrick if he could explain the different brainwave patterns and how they are related to different types of consciousness. He tells us there are actually 14 types of brainwave patterns, but there are five main brainwave types we can start with.
The first is gamma, gamma has to do with the brainwave frequency of heightened creativity. The next is beta: beta brainwaves create our survival instincts and keep us alive. They are the fight or flight brain so they are necessary, but often we are so stuck in this brainwave pattern that we cannot relax into other brainwaves.
Next up is alpha brainwaves. Patrick likens these to our intuitive mind, we use these brainwave patterns all the time. The fourth brainwave type is theta, this is the inventor mind. Not many people are able to tap into this pattern but it is where our greatest inventions have come from. BrainTap Technologies uses this on their platform. And last but not least is delta, this is the unconscious. Delta is also where rest and recovery happens for the brain and the body.
Patrick also explains that none of these are more important than any of the others, we need all of them equally just in different proportions. He goes on to detail those proportions as well as how their technology has been shown to positively impact cognitive decline and what sets BrainTap apart from other brainwave-related apps and devices on the marketplace today. You’ll also hear how to get 15 days of the app for free so be sure to listen to Patrick’s insightful episode of Awesome Health Podcast!
- BrainTap Website: https://braintap.com/
- BrainTap Pro: https://braintap.pro
- Patrick Porter on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/patrickporterphd/
- BrainTap on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/braintaptech/
- Patrick Porter on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PatrickPorter
- BrainTap on Twitter: https://twitter.com/braintaptech
- Patrick Porter on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drpatrickporter/
- BrainTap on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/braintaptech/
- A special offer for Awesome Health listeners: https://bioptimizers.com/braintap
Read The Episode Transcript:
Wade Lightheart: Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. It's Wade T Lightheart from BiOptimizers with the Awesome Health Podcast. And I am pumped and excited today, because today's topic is on brainwaves and health. And for those who have listened to the show before, I'm super big on this. Matt, super big on this, my co-founder. We're really into this whole thing. And I think it's the cutting edge of where we're going for health, happiness, brain performance, cognitive function. And we have one of the world leading experts on this particular topic. Today we have Mr. Patrick Porter, who is a PhD that works with his team of scientists and mindfulness experts and are leading the way in brainwave entertainment technology. So yeah, we can actually make this fun. In the process, they've made BrainTap technologies, a global leader in the personal improvement field with a library of more than 1000 guided audio programs. Braintap allows users to relax, reboot and revitalize while achieving peak brain performance. So I want to get into this, Patrick, because you know, as being one of the world's leading experts, so many people having cognitive issues now today, the stress and the digital technology stuff. How did you get started and studying brainwaves and creating literally a thousand programs plus on this area? Dr Patrick Porter: Right? Well, it actually started… We'd have to go way back in time when I was 12 years old, my dad was a seminar leader for a company called the Silva method. And so we used to use galvanic skin response systems to train our brain, to go to alpha. And it kind of evolved in, to give you just the highlights, but when I went to school, I'm in school for electronics. So but I kept helping my dad with the seminar and I could make as much money doing electronics as I was the time I spent and I loved helping people. So I got a job with a group called Light and Sound research, and I was there. I was a research scientist. So what happened, was I got to use the machines. We didn't have anything like we have today, today, we have such technology that we can measure brainwaves on which spot on. Back then we used something called the Mind Mirror and we developed the first portable light and sound machine it's kind of evolved. And then in 2014, when technology, I really wanted to make an advancement in the technology. I combined it all into a single headset. Like you see back there and the little crystal head, you know, so people don't know what BrainTap is. It's goes over the top. So we put everything together, all the science that we knew from the five different sciences that we work with, we were able to put it all in one before that it was a lot of wires and a lot of different equipment and it wasn't real convenient. And we really sold it mostly through professionals, to professionals. Now we can go to the general public. Everybody can do this. And with the app, of course, the phone makes it so easy to do binaural beats, right? Socratic tones, that we can just put it right in there. Wade Lightheart: Beautiful. Now for people who haven't, or don't have an understanding, could you maybe run through real quickly the different brainwaves and what they're correlated to, and kind of states of consciousness and awareness? Dr Patrick Porter: Sure. I'm going to just break it down into five. There's a lot more, we could break it down into 14, you know, but the top of the line right now in the news is called gamma. Gamma is a brainwave frequency that has to do with heightened states of creativity, inspiration, almost every meditation article now that goes out to the market, talks about how much gamma is, are people exposed to. I can get into that later in the program if you want, because I got some unique insights into that with I know [Lu Tei] who did the research with MIT. We met with her a few times with our BrainTap equipment and things. The next one is beta where we're talking right now. Hopefully we'll keep people awake and other game. Beta is good and bad beta. We call the reactionary mind. We need it. It's our survivor brain. If we don't have it, we might have to think before the sabertooth tiger, you know, gnaws off our leg. But it's also out of control. We need it because we have to function, drive, do the things we have to do. But right now, so many people are so engaged in their beta brain, which is their fight or flight brain they're not able to turn that turn down off the power. Think of it like the gas pedal and the brake. They are so afraid. The body is so afraid that it's in a heightened state of what we call neurological function, which is not good. Now, what we want to do is get people into alpha and theta. So alpha, think of alpha as your intuitive mind, we all use it all the time. And in fact, Deepak Chopra said 97% of what's going to happen tomorrow we know about today. He's talking about the intuitive mind because we're always future pacing. If not,or at least if we're normal, we don't want to have any cognitive decline, but we want to plan out our day. We want to plan out what's gonna happen tomorrow. And that's why when something happens that we're not aware of, we go, I just can't believe it. You know, we go into disbelief cause' our brain is always fabricating our future. That happens in alpha. Now, very few people are able to get into theta, which is where we go with BrainTap. But theta is really important because that's, we call that the inventive mind, almost every great inventor, whether it be Elon, Musk, Tesla,Einstein, Edison, all of those people, they track it back to that brainwave state. Now what's really important about gaba is it's probably the most highly researched neurotransmitter right now on the planet, because two thirds of America isn't sleeping. And there's reasons for that, that we can get into too. But they, but you can trigger it yourself. You produce your own gaba. But the problem is, if you don't have that theta experience expression, if you will, during sleep or when you're waking up or going to sleep, you don't get enough of gaba. So you don't sleep well. And then we have Delta. Delta is unconsciousness. Let's say you're getting a surgery down in your, in delta. There's a lot of studies that show you still are conscious. You know, you can tell what the doctor's saying and things like that, but think of that as your rest and recovery brain. Because if we don't get that deep level, what we call level four sleep, your body doesn't really rebuild or recharge. Now, none of those brainwaves are more important than any other. It think of it like a dance you need to be. If I was to go out and you and I were to go lift weights, let's say, and go to the gym. We better have some engagement in beta, but if we don't have engagement in alpha, at the same time, we can't build muscle because the acetylcholine at the mind, muscle connection or junction, if it's not there, you won't build muscle. So a lot of people go to the gym and they're stressing out all the time trying to work so hard. The recovery is so important. Like they try to get through their workout really fast. They're doing themselves a disservice. It's better to do half as much, but have the recovery time in between. So at that mind, muscle junction, that alpha, which comes in when you're daydreaming. So, you know, when you're in the gym and you do the lifting and then you kind of walk around, that's good. That's not bad. You just don't want to do it for too long. You know, if you're there all day daydreaming or looking around in the mirror at yourself all day, you know, you're not going to build a muscle, but there's a balance there. Wade Lightheart: Arnold Schwarzenegger actually illustrated some of those things in his early books about how he would visualize and imagine his mother, he would use his imagination, which is also something that Einstein did. And of course, I think you illustrated a good point. There's the tendency in the world to kind of get into this idea, that one thing is better than none, or more of something or better. But I think there's also not just the different types of brain waves, but also the synchronization. And then generally, would you say that's true that people have kind of a dominant brainwave they access very easily and that can be a driver? I did some neuro feedback training. And the early feedback training I did was an alpha dominated, which usually you build alpha to go the other way, but then I went to a different type of training and I've been meditating for 20 years. And when I was doing the alpha stuff, my alpha was, I could suppress it really easy. Now they didn't have the gamma reading technology. So then I was really frustrated with the person. And then I went to gamma, I got to gamma try and I was very easily able to raise my gamma for meditating for 20 years cause that was the style I was doing. There's different styles of meditation. And that became the driving point for my other waves. So how does one, why I'm saying all this is, how does one become what I would say like, you know, the ability to switch between different waves or what wave would we do at what time and how do we are able to kind of access? If we imagine like a piano concert, you know, player, how would they look at that, if that's what you want a full range of our brain? Dr Patrick Porter: We call our technology frequency, switching technology, because, that's you're right at. That's what you want to do. So we know that if we were to put you on an EEG and they'd had full spectrum brainwaves from gamma, maybe even up to 200 frequencies, cause' some people do go that high and we go down to zero. We would find that when you reach the threshold of the elfa, which is 10 Hertz frequency, you actually get a gamma burst. You also get a delta burst. So your brain actually harmonizes, think of it like a tuning fork, you're hitting it. Boom, the brain actually lights up. When you cross over the 7.8 Hertz band two, and there's something called the golden mean, which is everything in the universe is based on these fractal patterns. And it seems kind of spooky when you think about it, but it's the reality. And our brain works the same way, but it works in synchronicity. So our hemispheres are also talking across the corpus callosum, which is that big band of information in fibers. That's what happens when we go to sleep, we take today's information, we store it. We need each of these different brainwaves, because what happens is they all have different responsibilities in the body. I tell people it's like having five wifi systems in your body because it's electrical in nature. That electrical system sends signals down to the body that turns on the chemical system. You know, the biology of the body. The nice thing is the electrical system is free energy. You can get as much as you want, if you have a positive attitude and all that. The chemical system isn't. So if you're relying on the chemical system, you burn out very quickly, you don't have the energy that you want and things like that. So when you look across the spectrum, you should have 40% of your brainwave while we're awake in beta. That's just because we need to be there alert. We need to have at least 30% of our brainwave in alpha. And that's because we, let's say you have more alpha than beta, you're going to be attention deficit, because your creative mind is going to take over and your beta brain, think of it's like the break in the gas pedal or for the system. And you've gotta be able to kind of flow back and forth. And then you should have anywhere between, you know, 15% theta, then there'll be a little bit of gamma, a little bit of delta. Unfortunately, what we see Wade, when we're dealing with people out there in the world and we're measuring them at trade shows and things like that. We're finding that almost 90% of the people at a trade show. This is doctors. Most of these doctors are in really good health they think, but they forgot all about their brain health, because their brain is over 60% delta. When I see that, what I see is there's two reasons for them, two main reasons. There's a lot of other reasons, but the two main reasons, inflammation, number one, massive inflammation. If they got gut inflammation, they got brain information. You know, these two work together. There's three brains we're talking about here. We have a gut brain. It has more neurons connections in our brain, in our head. And then we have our brain in our heart. There's actually 40,000 new neuro cells in our heart. So this heart is talking to our brain and we're very fortunate right now we have technology where you can measure these things. You can talk about how this all works into injunction. So if you're, if we're lifting weights, like I said before, you want to have that beta alpha brain. If we're meditating, you want to have that theta, alpha brain. If you're sleeping, you want to flow through those cycles and gamma stimulation. We're now playing with a series for triggering gamma and doing a study actually in Brazil with a group down there at San Paulo, because we have one study we did just to blow your mind away with what brainwave technology can do. We, one of our doctors in Florida, he wrote a book called "Saving your Brain". His name is Dr. Kelly Miller. He might be someone you might want to reach out to. He's got some pretty good information, but he's a BrainTap doctor, but he uses other technology. But we did one study with him. He took women 55, 65. Everyone in the pilot study was diagnosed by their doctor with dementia. We did the cognitive skills test with Cambridge scientists. They all tested. They had cognitive decline. They were in dementia spectrum. The only thing they did was light sound vibration, training to what's called SMR. Now that's another brainwave we didn't talk about. But sensory motor rhythm is the brainwave between high alpha in low beta. Okay. That has to do with your distributor system. It also has to do with cognitive thinking. So we train them to that. Now we also train them in the morning with an AM series. We call digital coffee. So we want to wake up the brain, but we want to use brainwaves to do that. So that means we're going to overstimulate alpha and beta in the morning to just kickstart the brain, to get it going. At night, we had them do a delta training because we want to teach the brain. Most of the time, brain is not regulated back to your question earlier. People don't know how to regulate their brain. Let's say you get up in the morning and you do this one mistake. You open up your phone. And this happens to be a day where you get a negative text or something bad news. If you're not able to shake that off before breakfast, you've got a neurological problem because… I like reading a lot of books. And Paramahansa Yogananda once said that the difference between children and adults, when they get upset, is children get upset - they get angry, they cry, they get over it. Adults get upset. They cry, they get angry, they get meetings and they talk about it. You know? So it's like a badge of honor. So when we flow through these things, but what happened in this study, we only used BrainTap for the purpose of this study. If you use other things, it's going to be much better. Like there's a lot of nutritional things you can do. Like just what you know, your company does. You've got some really great supplements to do that, but we just wanted to show. Cause' when you're doing a study they want to say: "Oh, is it the supplement was this". We know that we can intensify the results using supplementation. So on that… But for the study, six weeks later, we did the test. We can't in science. We don't know how to measure one neuron connection. That would be kind of right now. We don't have that sophisticated, but our brain has voltage. So this voltage happens. And where these voltage clusters are? They know, we have neuron connections. So that's called neuroplasticity. So we're going to get these brain. If you want to call them brain circuits to light up those circuits in Hebbs Law says those neurons, that fire together, wire together, things of that nature in, those neurons don't fire together tend to unwire. So we brought a new habbits in patterns. So what we did after the six week study, we took the brain scan, voltage scan before the brain scan, voltage scan after. 64% more neuroplasticity in six weeks doing this exercise three times a day. Also none of them scored on the cognitive decline test. They were all no longer in dementia. When they went back to their doctors, their doctors were blown away and they said, do you think it was this light and sound and vibration brainwave training, every other doctors said, no, we don't think it's that. It's like, okay, what was it then? You know, they didn't miraculously go to Lourdes, France and sprinkle holy water on their brains. You know, there was something else happening, you know? But we are very fortunate here, Wade. We just had three studies published by NIH. So we were asked to give talks about, and we didn't have this study done, this pilot study, but we did a study with telemarketers. You know, they're pretty stressed out people and they can't sleep. So we did a study with them on mood control and things like that. And we did a study about just cognitive improvement and neurological improvement, and we had a 30% improvement. And so NIH allowed us… We were supposed to present, but with what's going on in the world today, of course we didn't, we were going to submit over the internet, I guess, with a bunch of their doctors. But they're starting to see the light as it were to the frequency response programs and things like that. Wade Lightheart: I'm so excited about all this information. Cause' it's an area that's absolutely fascinating. And I think what a lot of people don't understand and you know, you're always on the cutting edge of this is that we can absolutely take control of our brain health. Cognitive decline is not something that isn't a moving, we've got billions or millions and millions of people in North America, which are going to have huge costs because of cognitive decline. We have a presidential candidate that's obviously in cognitive decline. So maybe he can give you guys a call and help out. Two things that I want to dive into, which you kind of zoomed over in that is the percentages of different things. Like how are you, let's say a person says: "Hey, you know what? I want to improve my brain. I want to know where I'm at. How do I go?". Is there devices or technology or ways that I can start monitoring where I'm at on a given day of between going through these states or do I got to come into a center or how does this all work? Dr Patrick Porter: Well, of course in the clinics, you're going to get the more sophisticated.. We actually sell a clinical HRV that is what they call data pulse analysis. HRV is part of that. We can also do ECG, which means through the electrocardiogram, we can know the percentage of brainwave activity. We also use a device called the Wabi, which I would recommend people look into. That's on the lower end of pricing. And Jake Pates, he's actually done a series with him. He's an Olympic snowboarder. We're actually doing a research project right now with what they call action sports and Olympic athletes. And because of getting concussions and we can, what happens with a concussion? Is that the second thing, I didn't say it before, it was, it's either a concussion or inflammation. So the concussion protocols we use, but you can do it a lot with smart devices like this device I have here, it's called Wabi. I can do my heart rate variability. It'll tell me brainwave activity. And it has a little clip I can do. And they're less than $500. The smartphones today even almost every device out there will do. The most important thing you want to read is your sleep cycle. And the main reason for that is if you don't get at least one hour of deep sleep in two and a half hours of REM sleep, it's not about make the time in bed, which people talk about all the time. It's about, we say that what we do is we help to maximize your time because you're going to get deeper sleep. You're not going to need as much sleep, but if you're in bed for at least six hours or seven hours, you're going to get those cycles. And there's a lot to that. So the key thing here is that when you talk about these different brainwave states and how you measure them, if you get that in place first, then you can measure it. But if you're not getting the deep sleep, you're not getting a good sleep cycle. It's going to throw off everything in your body, think of sleep as your superpower. And if you don't get it, somebody put kryptonite in your pocket, you know, you just don't seem to function as well. Wade Lightheart: Yeah. You make a great point there because there's a considerable variance about the amount of people sleeping. There's this kind of concept out there and go just as a funny story, Matt, my business partner and myself we'd always would go back and forth on the amount of sleep and he's become kind of a sleep expert. And the interesting thing was, when he started this whole understanding of sleep and regenerative process, he would go nine hours and not feel regenerated. And I'm popping up after six and feeling amazing. What devices do you use? Do you think the Wabi is good for sleep tracking or whatever? Cause' I know some of the information, some of the companies use secondary data, which is not as accurate. So what's your opinion? Dr Patrick Porter: Wabi, you can't really wear when you sleep. Wade Lightheart: Right. Dr Patrick Porter: But there are other devices you can get that if it's a wearable and you feel comfortable wearing it then the key to sleep or remember is you don't get that one hour in one chunk, you get it in waves. So what happens during that deep level sleep is your brain. In 2016 in May the main issue of American scientific people came, they came out with a really cool article and they showed that there is a glial lymphomic vessels. It's really lymphatic vessels. You know, they just had to get fancy with it being in the brain for glial cells and how the brain works. But anywhere there's a blood vessel, there's going to be a lymphatic vessel. So what we found is that by producing light, through the flickering response in the ears, we can open up more blood flow to the brain, which means we're also opening up more lymphatic drainage for the brain. And so, if you don't reach that deep level of sleep, the brain never detoxes. And so you detox the old fashioned way. It's kind of like the leaky gut. You're going to have leaky brain. You're going to have foggy thinking. You're going to have headaches, all those things. Cause' all those toxins are in there. They got to go somewhere. And so they're going to leak out, you know, so you don't want that. So if you get the level four sleep, you won't require as much sleep because that's where you get your energy. They call it delta burst. So you get these bursts that happen. And if you've ever woke up, which a lot of your listeners probably have, they've woke up and they have sleep paralysis. That's the deep, they call it epsilon - is the brainwave state because it's the deepest sleep. You know, they got to come up with these weird terms for the brainwaves, but this epsilon state between zero and two, a brainwave, they actually, you can be there and not have any activity and you're not brain dead. It's just for that moment for those microseconds, your body's taken offline. So think about it like you're at the Ford motor company and you've got to clean the line. You're not going to do it with everybody working on the line. You're going to say, okay, everybody go take a coffee break. We're going to clean the line. And that's kind of the way the body does it with the nervous system. And if you don't get those cleaning cycles in place, you also don't get the neurotransmitters. Because when we go to, like right now where we're talking, the biggest addiction is serotonin addiction. I mean, I'm sorry, dopamine addiction where we're sitting here right now. And dopamine is part of the beta brainwave cycle. So when you're in high beta, your brains pumping out this dopamine. So we want this hit. We want like, we get a text, we get the texts like "Oh yeah, wow". You know, if you check your phone on average, 150 times a day, like they say, people do, that's crazy. You're addicted to the dopamine response of opening it up. If you go into alpha, now you're going to trigger that acetylcholine that we talked about earlier, that's going to make you feel good. You're gonna have energy. It's kind of a flow state. You get with that. Gaba is triggered from theta and then serotonin's triggered in delta. And there's a flow of these, and of course, there's a lot more neurotransmitters, but that during sleep. Think about it. Like you're building up your bank account for tomorrow. If you don't get that sleep, that bank account kind of neuro-transmitters is not there. Then the body will function because it will, it has to. So it's going to start robbing Peter to pay Paul. And that's when we're going to get the nutritional deficiencies because the body's not regulating correctly. And of course our foods are not very good. So all these things play into how the brain functions. Wade Lightheart: Oh, oh man, this is such a great conference. I'm having so much fun here. I just notice over your shoulder, there's a picture with a headset and I sat in these kind of headphones. What is that device? And cause' I'm curious, my brains on it. Like, what is that? And… Dr Patrick Porter: That's the BrainTap. Wade Lightheart: Okay. So can you talk about the BrainTap and what that is and how it works and how do you utilize with all this information? And then secondary, because I know a lot of you are like "how do I learn about all this stuff? Where do I get this information? I want to learn about gamma and alpha and delta and all this sort of stuff?" Dr Patrick Porter: Right? We're going to give them a free book. All they have to do is go to BrainTap.Pro. They go to BrainTap.Pro They'll not only get a free book. My book thrive in overdrive. I've written nine books, but that's probably the best book to give away, Chapter Four, The Science. So they'll be able to read about the science, but also they'll get our app for 15 days free so they can try out some of these things. And in the app we have alpha training, beta training and all of that. So they can learn about that. But the headset is a combination of, you know, 30 years of research that I've done and what I'm trying to do. There's some things that are unique about ours because we have a patent on it and we discovered it, but we use lights in the ears. A lot of people go, what the hell? What is that going to do? Well, the main reason for that is we, our skin, is actually a receptor of all information. It's not just that. We don't just see through our eyes. We are receiving all this data and information all the time, but the ears, if anybody has ever done iridology or done acupuncture, you know, in the ear itself, there are meridians that mirror every part of the body. And today in science, in medical science, we know we can trigger with a laser different parts of the ear and it actually affects different parts of the body through something called photo biomodulation. So what we're doing is, I thought, wow, what if we could take the six 33 nanometer light, the four 70 nanometer light. These are both healing lights. And we could put them in the ear and broadcast at a hundred or 297 Hertz frequency. So it's also frequency based. And that happens to be the frequency that Dr. Nosier said turns off sympathetic overload. And so we tested this with autistic children who can't follow along like the normal brain, let's say the normal everyday brain. We can't talk to them and say: "Hey, calm down". We put this on them. Boom. They're out within two minutes. And in fact, our Dr. Joe Critahandy, who does the most with our autistic children. She's kind of famous in that world. She said, most parents, once they see their kid on that, they go: "I'm not leaving until I get one of those take home". Because their kids can't settle down because they're in sympathetic overload. They're at this cascade, they have all this energy. So that calms it down. Also, we're going to do, what's called blood doping with light. The most under prescribed nutrient on earth today is light. Everything we take in, even if we're taking in like the pills that we have, you know, the little supplements and things that's like condensed into matter. But we also get fed light from our sun and we only perceive and live in a very small spectrum of that light, but that light extends way out beyond the scope. So we don't see our whole world, we don't experience, but our body's experiencing it in the form of frequencies. So we're feeding the brain through the years. Now, what happens in the ears? If you ever cut your ear, you know how hard it is to get to stop cause the blood is pumping through there so hard. So as the blood is pumping through there, it slows down. Blood throughout the rest of the body can circulate through the body at about 45 seconds. Through the ear can take up to four minutes. So that means all that hemoglobin is just sitting there. We can now pump it with light. The first place, it goes, the main arteries from the ear go right into the brain. So now we're giving the brain the first opportunity. For those that don't know about light, and we're not going to get into it that deeply here, we could maybe do it later, but it's called this photo biomodulation effect. It creates vassal dilation, micro scapular, the capillaries and things like that. More blood flow to the area this facile dilation means it's going to blow up the blood vessels so that you can get pump more in. It's going to create more, called angiogenesis. And then we're going to create when it goes to find a cell that's dying. Cause' that's what's happening in the body all the time. It's called apoptosis. Immediately that cell is going to act like a magnet for that photon. It absorbs that photon into that cell. Once it does that, the mitochondria kicks back on and read the instruction set is reenergized. And the cell comes back to life. This happens all over the body. It happens naturally when we're out in the sun and they're in the right time periods. So what we're doing is we're feeding the brain. So first of all, through the lights, I don't know if you have a question about that or you want to comment or do you want me to move on? Wade Lightheart: There is couple of things I think for people to get… And I'll go back to. I remember reading a work from, you mentioned Yogananda who's I've used his meditation techniques. I've been in a great relationship with his work and his spiritual teacher. His group was a guy by the name of your chessboard, who talked about the ability to see with your ears and hear with your eyes and people go: "well, that sounds crazy". But we have to recognize that we're converting various frequencies into a visual cortex. Like this was a big challenge in artificial intelligence for like 40 years, we think that seeing is normal, but it's actually not normal and we're just converting various spectrums and our different sensory components are doing this. And you mentioned something really great. There's this wider spectrum that we have access to, but I think in today's technologically driven world where we're increasing the amount of time we're spending in a very narrow band. And if I heard you correctly, what you're kind of doing is retraining people to kind of expand out to these other bands, which quote unquote could be considered the mystic realms or the realm of genius or the realm of specific latent talents. Would you say that's an accurate assessment? Dr Patrick Porter: Yeah. We call it the infinite field of possibility. So it's there, because anything you don't think is possible as possible there. So just by definition of that. But I got even one step more than what you're saying, because we work with a group called NORA, the Neural Ophthalmology Research Association. You do hear with your eyes. Every person on earth does. 30% of your hearing comes through your eyes. If you've ever been to a lecture and you couldn't understand the lecture, but then you move your attention so you could have line of sight with that person. Then you heard them that's evidence that it's happening. And it happens because of our primitive reflexes in our brain. When we evolved as a predator, I mean, we had to think, and we had to live. We weren't so concerned with what was behind us. We can be aware of it, but we're really want to focus on what's in front of us because of the way that our brain evolved, so that all of our senses coming. That's why our sense of smell is so heightened as far as neuro training. In fact, just as an side with our sense of smell, if you can smell peanut butter, you're probably on the road to dementia. You need to start doing something right now. So what are the tests they can do is go and smell peanut butter. They don't smell it. There that's one of the tests they use actually to show you, because the olfactory sense is so locked into our brain functions, our limbic brain, and how it works. Wade Lightheart: And smell I understand is also deeply correlated with memory association as well. I think it's the oldest sense inside the body and the human smell factor, our capacity smell has been deteriorating across the board rapidly. I remember that studying ninja training practices is that they would use senses of smell to guide them in the darkness. And you think of "who could possibly do that, sounds like a hound dog or something". Do we have these capabilities? So you're saying that you can actually unlock these kind of dormant, super powers that we've just lost in the modern world? Dr Patrick Porter: Right? Yeah. I actually just was interviewed by a group, because they want to use some of our equipment to track how they're doing it. They actually see without their eyes. And you can see this on YouTube, just go in there Eilis site and you'll see, they teach people to do this. Everyone can do it if you go through the training. So it's like, we think our senses are locked into our eyes, ears, nose, mouth, you know, and sense of touch, but we are multifaceted in that way. So what we wanted to do with the BrainTap is try to tap into as many of those. Now with the old factory, we just use essential oils, you know, will trigger them. Like, especially if I'm helping someone get through stress, through childbirth. We have them select an oil so that whoever is going to be working with them. As soon as they start to feel any stress, all they have to do is open up that oil, smell it. And that's that conditioned response. Their body remembers the relaxation and they get back into the mindset because it'll automatically shift gears at that point. And that's also why we work a lot with chiropractors in our world because they do the adjustment. Like the C one adjustment is probably the best thing any biohacker could do, because it turns on the nervous system. It's almost like a lot of people are doing all these things, but their nervous system it's like the wire has been disconnected and they're not getting the throughput. So there's a lot of things you can do to set up the hardware. So you get the best front of your software, you know, which is your mind Wade Lightheart: Super. I mean the possibilities, when people start tapping into this kind of quote, unquote pun intended, is really extraordinary. I want to talk a little bit more for people about BrainTap how does the process come for a person that says "hey, you know what, maybe I'm not at my best brain wise, maybe I'm overstressed. Maybe I'm losing memory, or I feel like I need to go to the next level, but I'm not able to take the time and energy to kind of learn these other things". What type of person comes to BrainTap and how do they assess where they're at or what goes on? Can you explain that process? Because I think this is such a critical service for people to understand. Dr Patrick Porter: Right. You don't have to be assessed to know that you're stressed out. Most people know that. But if you want to be assessed, then yeah, that's important. But what I did, because I used to own a franchise company, it was called Positive Changes, and we had 108 locations. So we used to see thousands of people every day. So what we did is think of it, like going to the gym and going to the circuit training. You know, if you do that, right, you're going to get some results. Of course, if you hired a personal trainer, you're going to get better results. So this is more when they go to our clinics, they get the personal trainer. Maybe they are gonna do some neurofeedback. Cause' we have a whole neurofeedback series. If you're working with neurofeedback. The only problem we have is like devices like muse, which are very good, and they're very inexpensive, but they don't believe in theta because most people can't get to theta. So they eliminated it. It's like, are you kidding me? So now we have to use the third party software when somebody is using that, because that's for the end user. If they really want to learn about their brainwaves, we always say, then they can do something like that. But the problem is with that one is it's only going to tell you about alpha and they have like one training. You get to learn about how birds chirp, you know, but there's a lot of other ones out there that can do it. There's a lot of systems, but we know is that we can train any brain. We did a study actually way back in the eighties when I was with Light and Sound research. And we worked with clinics in Phoenix, 30 of them. And we wanted to do a study with all of the high school students. We wanted to see, they didn't have any words. Like it was just the binaural beats, in the lights. We didn't have everything I have in my device today. But we wanted to track pre and post a thousand people. It took a while to get that done. But when we did it, what we found, it took at least three sessions for everyone to follow the algorithm. And what we found was if we take, just to give an example, they're all a little bit different. Every session of ours, a little different for neuro-plasticity reasons. But we're going to have spend more time at theta sort, our theta series. The first session, you might only go to theta for five minutes, but the next time it could be six minutes. Next time, seven minutes. The whole idea is how long can we keep you in that brainwave state? And we're not just keeping you there. We have an algorithm that we move you a little bit out of it a little bit below it, a little bit out of it. And it's always moving. So it is kind of, we call it tai chi for the mind. So I'm really big into martial arts. I spent a good number of times over in Wudang mountain in China. So, you know, they do it of course, without BrainTap but… You can do all these things on your own if you have the discipline and time to do it. The problem is most people don't have the discipline and time. So we did, as we said "we'll do it for you". So with ours, we have a series. So you start with number one and you move through it. Even if you're a seasoned meditator we've only had in the history of time, a couple of people ever beat the BrainTap. We could take somebody who's never meditated before, put them on the BrainTap and we can beat seasoned professionals, because we can get them to go where somebody who's meditated for 20-30 years in just one session, like dominant brain waves. Most people don't realize that when they're meditating on their own and we have them on the EEG, they stress out. Their body actually goes into sympathetic overload, because they're thinking too much. They're going "Gosh, am I breathing, right. Am I sitting right? Do I have my hands right?" You know, "am I saying om correctly", whatever they're doing. Wade Lightheart: Right. Dr Patrick Porter: And that's why I think the mindfulness movement's been such a big plus because they say, don't worry about all that. Just kind of let it pass through you, like went through an open window or something, and people will get better results doing that. Wade Lightheart: Now, do you find cause this is, I think what was really interesting and I remember going back to Yogananda's writings back in the day, a hundred years ago. And he was talking about how there would be the advancement of technology, what he called spiritual base technology that would be able to help people access these states. As a person goes through this progression that you're outlining here. Do you find that there is kinda like, you know, driving to a new location? You move to a new city, you live in a new place and you go through your GPS and that gets you to the point. And you do that again. And you do that again. And after like 50 or a hundred times, you don't need the GPS anymore because you know how to get to that state. Is that something that seems to happen the more you get into these states? Dr Patrick Porter: Oh, I'll give you one example. At quantum university, which I teach neurofeedback and biofeedback there and neurolinguistic programming to the students. And we brought out muse, which we love muse. It's a good machine, but we had one of our students and these are all mostly elderly students. She got up there and did the exercise. Show we got two birds, which is pretty bad. She had no focus, anything. So she came over to me. She says "I don't know what to do. I meditate all the time. I can't believe I didn't do that". I said "sit down". I put it on the alpha training on the BrainTap. And then we got a doctor called her to put her back on stage. She got 23 birds. Boom. He goes "how'd you do that?" She goes "well, Dr. Porter said, all I need to do is learn to go to alpha". I said "now, remember the feeling you're in. That's the feeling you want to have up on stage. Once you get that feeling state, you can do it". So you're exactly right. I tell people "we can't take you to Hawaii, but we can get you to feel like you've been to Hawaii". You know, we don't have the teleporter technology yet. And I think that the brain, our brain loves experiences. Cause' we can't argue with our own experiences. If it's too heady, you know, then people just, they get confused and they don't know how to respond to that. Wade Lightheart: You know, that's so important for people to understand. Cause' I think a lot of people mistake the methodology with the goal. So it doesn't necessarily how you get to the top of the mountain. You don't need to be attached to a form. So if you look at Bruce Lee, who was, I think, as a philosopher was better than he was as a martial artist, if you were to compare them, I think, and what he, his whole idea of couldn't do was I don't believe in forms. I don't believe in structures. I believe in just learning what works and what doesn't work and to get to efficiency. So it's kind of like what they describe. If you look at classic Zen philosophy is the beginner's mind to achieve no mind, which is an advanced state of awareness. And I think as a process, one of my other teachers, Dr. David Hawkins talked about taking a yin position, which is hands open, but walking forward as a yang activity. I'm so excited about this technology. So I want to get this technology. I want to share this with people and everything. So what is the process? We download the book, we get the headset and stuff. We go through the cards, like, what is it like? What's the all-in package? What's the small package? What's the go to with a facility effect? Like, how do I want, I want to… Dr Patrick Porter: If you want to go to facility, they would have to email us at BrainTap and we can get you set up. We have 2,300 clinics around America. So we'd probably have somebody near you. You could throw a rock and hit them. You just don't know they're using it because it's part of their treatment protocols. But to buy it yourself is pretty simple. You can go right online. It's right there, it's $647. With that package you get access to what I call the Founder's choice, which is my sessions. Every month they change out for that neuroplasticity model. And then we have an app. If you want to go deeper, like we have sports programs, we that's those thousand sessions. You can either just buy one bundle and it's only 9,95 a month and there's no longterm contract. You just do want to do it this month, great. If you don't want to next month, just stop it. And what I can see, and then for 29,95, you get access to the whole library. So you get everything. So what we found is that when we did our study, we have aboutonly somewhere between 1 and 3% churn, which means people dropping off the app. If they own the headset, they use it. The average user uses it 28 times a month. If they just have the app itself, then we have about a 32% drop-off. I mean, we have one app that we're still trying. We haven't sold it in two years and we'd only goes down less than a hundred dollars a month and we're trying to get them off it. We're trying to get them over to another one, but they love that app and they love what they're doing with it, so we can't, you know. So it's one of those things that when people love something, even though it's everything that's on, that app is on the new app, which is the one that you can get [email protected]. Cause' it's called BrainTap Pro you can go there and get that app and then try it out. And then the nice thing is that you don't have to do any it's a passive learning. You can participate as much as you want. Cause' I'm reminding you, we're doing breathing exercises and things like that to get. We don't get into the psychotropic breathing. It's not like a Web Hoff or something like that, but we want to get your breathing. Cause' we know there's a certain way to breathe, where we can bring to the heart into coherency. With that study that I was talking about earlier, it was the two brains that were out of coherency. The left hemisphere was moving faster than the right hemisphere. So we had to design specific sessions to get the brain to reengage and become coherent again. So that's part of what's going on, but you don't have to know all that to actually just put on the earbuds or put on the headset and go. And you just pick out, do I want to do a morning session and afternoon session or an evening session? And then you just pick the one you want and you go for it. Wade Lightheart: That's beautiful. So you're saying that you can get, you can either just get the app, which is a monthly fee, but even better is if you get the whole set that gets in and that's 6,47, you said? Dr Patrick Porter: Yes, 6,47. Wade Lightheart: Wow. That's great. You know, I've literally spent $60,000 on my own brain training at advanced centers and have to go for a place for a week and this type of stuff. And keep in mind, I want to share with people it's absolutely worth every cent I've spent. What I've got on return of investment and how that's done when we do our executive training with a variety of things. But the fact that you can bring something so cheap, so inexpensive that offers so much value and so much convenience… I mean this may be one of the biggest breakthrough areas that people can learn about. Dr Patrick Porter: Well, we're getting so much press right now because we partnered with AIIMS, which is the All Indian Institute of Medical Sciences. We showed how we can improve any meditation, any meditation out there. They actually had me speak in front of 28,000 people with the whole heart meditation program, because I have a whole program about the science of meditation, what it does for the body. Wade Lightheart: Wow. Dr Patrick Porter: And then we're also partners with Nimmons, which is the largest facility for mental health. They're now doing studies with us for dementia anxiety depression and things of that nature. Jims, which is the government and of medical sciences, just finishing up a study on brainwaves for us. We have five universities in Brazil working with us, in America, Duke universities, our partner, and we have Seminole college down in Florida. Most people know who Mario Andretti is. His facilities down in Florida now have brain capping rooms. So if you get stressed out from driving the stock cars and doing all that, you just go over there and chill out with a BrainTap. And we put these in corporate offices too. We have rooms. We'd say, instead of taking a coffee break, take a brain break, you know, or a health break, whatever you call it. And people will do this to engage their employees and get them to function better. Because we know from our studies, you can reclaim 80% of the energy from the morning just by doing a 10 minute session in the middle of the afternoon. Wade Lightheart: Wow. That's incredible for you know, that afternoon, you know, let down that a lot of people experience. You mentioned something before we got on the call here that I think is really interesting. And you kind of tapped into it a little bit where you were saying, you know, you have electrical area and then you have a chemical area and the electrical areas is much easier to kind of re tap into and then act re regenerate your body. What about the relationship between where your electrical states and nutrient absorption and supplements and things like that? Because I think a lot of people don't recognize that there are these electrochemical relationships that are critical depending on what state you're in, can determine how well you absorb nutrients. You want to expand on that? Dr Patrick Porter: Unfortunately Wade, most people are in a chronic state of low level stress all the time. We call it a neurological imbalance because we're supposed to have these high times and low times. So our bodies are designed to maybe run across a fight or flight experience five times a week. We could get that before breakfast. So if we don't, when you're fighting or flighting, if you find that your hands get sweaty or cold, you're probably not going to metabolize much of what you're eating because that tells us that you're in a fight or flight scenario. That means the digestion has stopped. So, or at least minimize to the point. Because your system doesn't care if you don't digest that sandwich, if you're being chased by a tiger, you know, so it's going to do that. So what we did is we have one group that does IB bags and they're doing brain for addictions. They found this. Basically the brain needs to absorb this amino acid and what they found when they were doing the BrainTap, because they were relaxed. They were absorbing up to 30% more of the nutrient. And it only makes sense because when you're relaxed, you're going to digest better. You know, that's the whole idea about a prayer before meal, besides just honoring, you know, whatever religion you're in. When you pray before a meal, you're really settling down your system. Virginia Hunt out of California Berkeley did a whole study about what happens to your digesting if you pray or not. It didn't even matter if you believed who you were praying to. It all had to do with just calming down our body before we eat. So if you're used to taking everything on the road and just rushing out of there, take a moment, set up your system to really digest it. That's why they do know even psychologically, if you're at dinner with your family, you have conversation, you're talking, you know, you're interacting in a civil manner then it's going to help with digesting. It's going to help with your natural well being. So it's all has to do. And you know, there's a lot of you can take, of course, you sell with your program, people have GERD or whatever, or they have indigestion, or they have that reflex. But a lot of that has to do with stress. You know, the acid in their body. Cause' it's going to change that all leads. You know, you don't need so much acid in the body. Plus they're eating a bunch of junk. You know, we can use the electrical system to fire up the system and do so much. And then once we've used that up, we gotta go. Think of your neuro hormonal system as the backup generator. Most people are using their backup generator all the time, instead of only using it when there's a storm and then when a storm hits their body just goes to pieces. You know, we all know people that, I don't know last week they were doing great. They just dropped over and died. Because they didn't even realize that their body was really from the inside out dismantling itself Wade Lightheart: Beautifully said. So I know we're coming up very shortly on the hour. Where do you see all of this going? I would say over the last 5 or 10 years, really, thanks to the podcast world, we've seen now this explosion of information, this explosion of awareness and attention. Where do you see this all going down the road with the use of brain technology and in the workplace, interpersonal lives, in sports performance and all these different areas, what do you see happening? Dr Patrick Porter: Well, I think, when my dad first was doing this in the eighties, of course in the seventies, we were like a pariah. You know, we were like this fringe group that was, you know, what are they doing? And now everyone knows, you know, we're all getting better looking and more intelligent with age and we all have brains, right? So the biggest fear in the world right now is not the fear of public speaking. It's the fear of losing our memories. So I think you're going to see it more prevalent place, and it's not going to come. I mean, we do need supplementation. I'm a big one on supplements, but we don't need it to come from the pharmaceutical industry because… One of the studies we did, just so the listeners know, every study we've done, if somebody is doing something with an SSRI or some kind of neuro cognitive prescription - that's treated as a toxin in the body. So there's only three reasons why you don't have health - traumas, thoughts, or toxins. And so by taking that, yeah, you get a short term improvement, but the reality is… To give you an example, a sleep, sleep medicine. If you take a sleeping pill, there's been no study that shows you get more than five minutes of sleep from this sleeping pill. Now you're getting to the world, but body's not rebuilding your sleeping. The serotonin uptake inhibitors, your body wants new serotonin, not yesterday serotonin. So why keep it in the brain? So they have proven that they don't even work. If they were put on the market today and Hendrix truly passed a double blind placebo study there's not one of them on the market. Now, the problem is getting often because the brain is unfortunately inheritedly lazy. It takes 2% of the body weight, but it's up 20% of the energy. So any time that it can offload some of its work, it does it. So by taking that pill, we always say, you can either take a pill or you can take responsibility. So, you know, and I'm talking about the pills… Wade Lightheart: Of course. Keep going. Dr Patrick Porter: So in that process of doing that, what we're saying is that you've got to take responsibility. We need to be nutritionally sound. We believe, when somebody comes to our house, they see what we take. Somebody might think that I'm like really sick or something because I do a lot of supplementation because I know that's what I have to do. You know, for years, I didn't know about supplementation. And when I got into weightlifting actually is when I got into supplementation, cause you want to get bigger, stronger, faster. In fact, when I was growing up it was funny because they said I was going to be the next Bruce Jenner. And now my friend said: "well, what are you going to change your name and have a sex change". But God, that didn't happen. And then they said, I was going to replace you and Gibbons and the grape nuts commercials, because back in the late seventies, nobody was eating that way hardly. You had Hoffman who was selling all his protein and supplements and it tasted like, you know, really bad, but you had to do it to get the muscle. But a lot of people don't understand that they think, "oh, I'm going to go get my vegetables at the grocery store". Well, your body gets those vegetables. And they've got so many bad things on them, that there's nothing inside of them, that the body is working really hard. So you could be eating really healthy. I was quote "healthy", but your body is nutritionally starved. So you've got to offset that. And that's for brain health too. Wade Lightheart: So really what you're saying is we have a way to maybe move people away from digital and drug dependence into a kind of cognitive and nutritional independence by taking responsibility for our brains, accepting that there are methodologies that are proven that you've got these technologies that are affordable, easily deliverable, processes, expertise, a wealth of information that we're able to now transform what's possible, and that you don't necessarily need to spend the rest of your life, you know, worrying about these things that are said: "oh, you know, everybody's going to have cognitive flying, everybody's going to have these things". Cause' we've all met people who are like 95 years old and they're sharp as attack or people who are that age and they're super fit. And then we meet, you know, 20 year olds that are just the opposite of that. So what you're saying is that you have a one stop shop essentially to transform what's possible for brain technology and what you can do on a home basis at your house, in the community of your home to really start advancing and transforming what's possible for you both in the short term, as well as the long term, as you learn this process? Dr Patrick Porter: Right. Just like exercise. Everybody knows they need to exercise now. We need brain exercise. You know, and I think as people do that. Meditation is one of those things. So if you're not using BrainTap, you should be using something that's causing you to relax and get the benefit of those neurotransmitters that are created. Wade Lightheart: Last question, before we go, and then we'll get all the information where people get to you. Let's talk about meditation. I've been meditating now for almost 20 years. I love it. I can really tell the difference. It's improved every aspect of my life. How does the Brain tech Tap technology work concordinately for meditators or people who have a meditative practice and want to, like accelerate the results? Cause' I just had, you know, in my personalized, customized training where I spent all that money to go, I figured I went like 10 or 15 years advancement by being able to access some higher states of gamma that were unlocked before and had a very profound experience. What is that for meditators right now and why should they use the BrainTap or consider trying it and seeing what they can do? Dr Patrick Porter: Right. What we find is if you're already a meditator, you're probably going to find that you're going to go there with more awareness. So the biggest thing that most people, they become unconscious. They go either too deep or they don't go deep enough. So the BrainTap will keep you there. It will hold you in that band or frequency. And what we find is that there's a correlation between theta activity and gamma activity. We don't know exactly what that is yet, when MIT did their study with the rats and showed the gamma breaks down amyloid plaque and all of that. So we met with a friend. Her answer is a $10 million room that flashes blue light at 40 Hertz frequency. So I showed her, I said, this is $647. Use it for a while. We find that just by doing a 10 minute session, get 23% more gamma. Wade Lightheart: Holy crap. That's amazing. Dr Patrick Porter: She said: "really?". Now the next time you met her, she goes "it's incredible. How could you do this with this little device?" And I said: "well, it's not really the little device. It's just like sitting in the room, but we've got it right on their head instead of building this big giant room and you don't need 40 Hertz frequency to do that, what you need is the brain to become again, frequency switching technology". Once you get the act of doing that. Another example, my brother-in-law is a surgeon. So I got him right after work. He was like a zero brain activity. I mean, his brain was just shot, but I said, I put him on some light therapy, brought him back. He's 54%. I said, what I want you to do is put this on this time. When I test you, I want you to think like, you're doing one of your surgeries. He has gamma was off the chart because he does all these, he's a maxillofacial surgeon. I mean, you've gotta be way up there in brain activity, just to look through all these things and do it. So he was just a matching and in his scan went of the chart, he goes "how'd that happen?" And I go "that's the state you're probably in when you're doing those things". So some people do this naturally like artists or healers, if you've ever met like a Reiki master, something like that, where they're channeling that energy, we've seen gamma spikes that are incredible. Wade Lightheart: Super impressive. Where can people find more about you, your work, BrainTap and all the amazing things that you're doing are very hard to get a headset, all that sort of stuff. Where can they find this? Dr Patrick Porter: They can start by going to braintap.pro, they can get a free download of the app. They'll start getting on our mailing list and all of that, we do have a brainwave summit, actually we're call it the optimal performance summit coming up in July. That's online so they can check that out. But if they get on our mailing list, they'll get that. They can also check us out on Facebook and Instagram. Every Wednesday night, I do a live meditation. You don't have to have the BrainTap headset. We do it at seven o'clock Eastern time. They can tune in, especially during this time everybody's in their homes. We're kind of helping out. We also have one called the BrainTap Retreat. We put out for this time where people need to distress. So we've selected specific sessions that can help them boost their immunity. So we have those who's part of it and it's all free right now, so they can tune in. Wade Lightheart: Beautiful. And so for those who want to find out more, you can also go to bioptimizers.com/braintap, get all these equipment. I would say, just go all in order this stuff, get the whole unit, give yourself that result. I think it's great. And just so people know, very seldom when I interview people, do I just want to say: "Hey, look, go buy this". You know, I'll usually give the references. But I'm going to make a call to action for people right now with this incredible stressful time, the inability to connect the way that we've been used to and, and the sheer amount of social, mental, and physical and emotional stress that people are under. Do yourself a favor, at least get the app. Secondly, why not go all in and get the whole device for you? Get all the programs, get all this sort of stuff, because I can tell you, I know it's gonna make a big difference in your life. And that's what we're all about it in Bioptimizers. And I know that's what you're doing BrainTap. Patrick, I want to thank you so much for joining us today. I mean, I would love to bring you back and we can get into some specifics. Just for you listeners, I'm going to get one of these devices myself and so that I can test that. And then we'll bring you back and I'm going to be able to share some of those experiences and refine that process. Dr Patrick Porter: That's great. Sounds good Wade. We will look forward to it. Wade Lightheart: All right, everybody. That's another episode of BiOptimizers awesome health podcast. And for those who listened to this session, make sure you check out BrainTap dot program, download the book, find out about these things or bioptimizers.com/braintapus. We'll see you again soon.