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125: Becoming a More Mindful and Spiritual Biohacker – with Oz Garcia

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While on Lockdown in New York City, Oz Dove Deep Within Himself

During the dumpster fire year known as 2020, many people faced lockdown situations, where they had no choice but to stay inside their homes and refrain from having contact with people outside their immediate family. 

Many folks in this situation chose to binge on Netflix, stress eat (which led to weight gain), abuse substances, and a tragic number of people became depressed along the way. 

The pandemic lockdown was brutal for everyone. Oz Garcia ended up shelving an exciting new book project he began at the beginning of 2020. But the lockdown turned out to be a blessing in disguise for Oz. Or, more accurately, his “pandemic response” shifted his momentum without breaking his momentum. Instead of getting caught up in the news and the chaos on the outside – Oz began meditating more. He dove deeper within himself, and at age 70, this famous “celebrity nutritionist to the stars” experienced a profound shift in perspective that has radically changed his daily life. 

This is a deep conversation between Oz and our host Wade Lightheart. You may know Oz Garcia as the celebrity nutritionist, the anti-aging expert, and the best-selling author. He’s all of those things – but more. The past year has taught Oz a lot about what’s truly important in life and how we can be better prepared mentally and physically for the next big crisis that comes along. Listen in as Oz and Wade reflect on the past year and how they are going forward.   

In this podcast, we cover: 

  • How to deal with uncertainty (better)
  • Unpacking Oz’s transformation this past year
  • How Oz keeps physically fit
  • What this new spiritual and meditative space looks like for Oz
  • Topics Oz is writing about these days (on his blog)
  • Where is technology taking us?
  • The importance of your microbiome and how a healthy gut strengthens your “B.S.” detector 
  • What a typical day looks like for Oz when he’s in his “flow”

Starting Your Day on the Write Foot

One thing Oz shares is his new habit of daily writing that began soon after the pandemic started. This daily writing routine developed as a response to the chaos happening in NYC. He discovered how using his new extra time creatively helped keep anxiety at bay. 

He has an office set up where all his writing materials are prepared and waiting for his arrival. He started with simple journaling. Oz says several good digital journal apps are out there to use – his favorite being The Five Minute Journal app. 

Oz also starts his day with the writings of other great minds – like the Stoics. Oz is a fan of Ryan Holliday’s Daily Stoic journal. The Sam Harris app is another tool Oz mentions as a way to begin your day in a more thoughtful place.

Oz says this part of his daily routine helps set up his day for success. “Instead of being preoccupied in the waves that we all are certainly after the first cup of coffee, like, oh, that’s something I think I should be thinking about today. And what you’re finding is that you’re becoming more authentic within the time you invested in reinventing yourself over and over. I don’t think I would be thinking the way that I think today had this not occurred.”

Daily writing is just one part of Oz’s entire daily routine that he shares. There is more when it comes to his physical fitness, work, and social practices. Please tune in to see how Oz spends his entire day geared for success.

Reinventing Yourself Over and Over

If you had to summarize this interview in one word, that word would be reinvention. Wade describes what society has recently experienced as a winter renaissance or a cocooning that sees the blossoms of change bursting forth. 

Wade asks Oz how he embraced his reinvention. What did he say to his close friends and mentors after he stepped away from his biohacking book project to instead go into a more intuitive, meditative, spiritual place? 

Here are some things Oz said: “I love the work of Steven Kotler and flow collective, and to get online every day and spend an hour or two where you’re examining certain things and pushing yourself to see the world from a whole other perspective. Eventually, you take on multiple points of view, and then, like a circus acrobat, your job is to keep a bunch of spinning plates on poles up in the air. If you’re good, you can shift from plate to plate without dropping any. But the point is, what lessons have you learned from each plate? What are you going to give back to the world? 

You want to get stronger – not physically but mentally and spiritually.

Join Oz and Wade in this fascinating conversation full of wisdom and knowledge built on decades of experience. Oz and Wade are two old friends catching up on life post-pandemic, and the results discussed are inspiring. 

Oz has “done it all.” He’s been a best-selling author and a consultant to A-List celebrities. But he’s still growing. Still open to new ideas. He’s reinventing himself at age 70, and he’s never been more satisfied. 

Check out this episode — maybe it’s time to reinvent YOU?

Episode Resources:
Oz Garcia Books
OzLifeNow (Oz Garcia Medium)
Oz Wellness Instagram
Oz Garcia Facebook
Oz Garcia Twitter
AHP Episode 52: Biohacking the Anti-Aging Movement with Oz Garcia
Wim Hof Method Guided Breathing for Beginners

Read The Episode Transcript:

Wade Lightheart: Good afternoon. And good evening. It's Wade T Lightheart from BiOptimizers with another edition of the Awesome Health Podcast. And today we have a returning guest Oz Garcia. And of course, if you haven't listened to episode 52, stop the tape right now and go back to it. Or you could just follow with us as we go through the world of biohacking. Of course, Oz Garcia is recognized as a leading authority on age reversal and healthy aging. As a nutritionist to the stars. Oz is the go-to nutritionist for A list celebrities and fortune 100 CEOs. He's unique and customized approach to nutrition. And anti-aging coupled with more than 40 years of experience has made Oz. One of the most recognizable names in the industry. He has lectured all over the world and has been a pioneer in the study of nutrition. And anti-aging we had an awesome episode last year. And it's so great to have you back on the show. Oz, welcome back.

 Oz Garcia: I'm delighted. Thanks for having me back Wade

 Wade Lightheart: Last episode, and for those who are listening, it's number 52 on the ultimate, you really ought to listen to it because you had, we went into your background as a photographer, kind of in the magical stage of New York that went on and how you got interacted with all the A-listers. And then somehow you have 54 days, correct? Yes. You went from a smoker to a runner, to like a [inaudible 2:07] to now in a list celebrity guy, how you've been doing the last year.

 Oz Garcia: A lot to learn, you know, there's and I suspect this is true for many people that are listening the shift in value system that I wasn't predicting. So, we could talk about that for quite a while, but it became evident to me, certainly as we entered 2021, that there were other things on my mind, besides continuing to build out the way that we were building out, what, what was it, the heart of what really mattered? What was it that in the end I could look back and let's say from, from myself 10 years from now and say to myself, now I should be doing so. So there was a great deal that occurred. And I think most of it occurred in terms of shifting the direction of where I want to take my life, what it is that I want to write about.

 Oz Garcia: I entered 2020 writing a book on biohacking, right? Like, all the techniques and all the cool stuff. And hanging out with friends of mine, like Dave Asprey and Ben Greenfield and Jimmy Quick, and all of us kind of kicking around stuff that I wanted to put into my book. And that idea died somewhere around late fall, 2020, as that began to get, I want to be very careful with this somewhat more mindful, somewhat more spiritual. And, and I don't mean religious, I mean, seriouslyspending a lot of time at home as we were all in lockdown here, meditating more, spending more time with the different tools that allow me to dive a little bit deeper within myself. And, so my whole perspective shifted, you know, where I'm at now, I'm actually amazed at what I was thinking going into 2020 and where I'm at, like one-third of the way into 2021,

 Wade Lightheart: You know, that you bring up a great point. And I think of course we were, I think when last time we talked, we were just in the starting stages of the whole, what I call, not the pandemic, the pandemic response that's right. And I think there's a clear distinction that needs to be made. There is then pandemic didn't shut down everything. The unelected officials who influenced their government decided to influence their elected officials to shut everything down. Let's be clear about that etymology and, and, you know, as biohackers and people who are health advocates, I find it fascinating that most of my friends in the field are really shocked and horrified how little public information was distributed to people about the positive things that people can do to enhance their immune system. So I always found it funny that gyms and churches are closed, but fast food restaurants and liquor stores. And I live here of Abbott, Kenny and Venice. You know, we can't go to a restaurant, but there's a line up out the door for med men, and you can buy booze at the liquor store. That's open down the street, but I can't go to church.

 Oz Garcia: These were things that began to show up on I'd say the horizon of what's really going on here. You know not only in terms ofthe poor public bureaucratic response governmental response to your point. And then beyond that, the more local responses themselves certainly here in New York City. We were at the heart of things going terribly wrong, right at the beginning. And then beyond that,how unprepared we were for what's occurred, that, that I didn't even know that there's a department of studying pandemics in the federal government. And they're really tough. They've got some of the top research scientists,nd geneticists up there. I didn't find out about it until I listened to a Peter and TIA,podcast during the summer with the leading guy that's been predicting and screaming for the right after for 10 years, disciplined them about to come.

 Oz Garcia: So, it opened up my eyes in large measure to the fact that many of us are just oblivious to what's really happening in terms of, let's say all these viruses, what's now being predicted going forward, and it should be public policy. Politicians should be talking about how do you prepare for something like this, maybe something even worse. You know, if it all goes to the way that I suspect it'll likely go, we're going to have a transitional period. And I suspect you may think this too, where we wind up somewhat better and certainly better prepared in terms of how we deal with, these catastrophic events. But, but our thinking too, should be better adapted to a less commercial world.

 Wade Lightheart: You bring up a lot of wonderful points and some things to flush out, which seems kind of odd from a health perspective, but when your life becomes transformed in the way that people's lives have been transformed, and I'm not talking about the people who have gotten the virus or lost their lives, or are dealing with complications from it, I'm talking for everyone else who has maybe survived it, transcended from it, or didn't get it, or whatever it happens to be. And, we still don't know what 18 months looks like or two years looks like or three. And, you know, they're talking about mutant strains, and then we have MRN that's in the vaccines. We don't know that's never been used in vaccines before. We don't know what the potential consequences of that we don't have long-term studies. So there is an incredible amount of unknowns. And when people are facing unknowns, oftentimes there's two types of people. There's people that are like myself, which are very good and comfortable dealing with high levels of uncertainty. And there's a lot of people who aren't.

 Oz Garcia: Well I would agree with you. I'd probably say that in the vast majority of people were a certain kind of animal, we're a certain kind of primate that, that requires a very high degree of certainty likely for the purposes of survival. 50,000 years ago, if you were walking through a Savannah and you kind of looked up while you were looking for something to eat, and, you saw off in the distance, the weeds Russell, you want it to have some certainty as to whether there was something there that wanted to have you for lunch, or it was the wind, right? So, so built into our nervous system, built into our ability to defend ourselves is some need to know what's going on. You know, do I stay, do I keep picking berries? Or do I get out of here and grab the kids, and find a safe spot.

 Oz Garcia: Now you move forward to the postmodern world that you and I live in and talking to yourself in your head. The mechanism that wants to know is still hard, wired in and baked into all of us. So, when you don't know, and you're talking to yourself in your head, there's a lot more anxiety to your point, a lot more fear. Now, very few people can embrace ambiguity, can embrace mystery. They got an, a, I got to know it now, there's that the immediacy button. And I think that that's just, you know, an evolutionary leftover appendage and, and, and nobody can reflect on that. Very few people can reflect on that.

 Wade Lightheart: That's a great point too, that I remember years ago now. I mean, it's going to lead to your point about the spiritual side of things is I studied the efforts of mystics and their role and goal in life and became a passion of mine, which I'm still involved in today to a great deal, maybe more so than my day job. And one of the things was this aspect of the traveling Yogi that would never stay in the same spot for more than two weeks. And anybody that's been on a trip knows when you first arrive in a new place, you're picking up more things. You're not sure where the area is, and there's a certain amount of anxiety and stress that's built into moving. And so I realized a lot of people don't know this, and I don't think I've ever told this story, but I literally did not live in the same place for 13 years now. I want to experience being in this continual state of movement. So I'd go here for a while. I get used to the place I moved there and I didn't do the two week thing, like a lot of yogis do or three days or whatever it was be. It would be a couple of months here, a couple months there. And there was a pace, I can remember specifically, I would arrive in a new place and I didn't feel the threat response system. And I went, Oh, that's what that's for.

 Oz Garcia: Well, on the other side and the flip side of the coin you've got courage. We have tolerance, we have, mxcitement, anticipation. So, that can offset, certainly if you're strong and you're really strong that those practices can, can rein over the, the, the ones that are debilitating, you know, getting scared, we scare easy where we're the kind of primate or animal. If you go, boom, and people lose it. And, then there's this capacity that certain individuals have to invent themselves in the ways that they do probably some genetics down in there. And, they get great thrills, you know, they're in flow States when they're doing what you're doing. I was like that when I was a lot younger. And then, whre I'm at, I like stability a lot more. But I remember doing the same thing, you know, picking a spot to go fly, getting off with a backpack and just being a wander and loving it.

 Wade Lightheart: Well, this leads me to the next thing, because I think a lot of people's responses to this whole situation has been ferry fear-based. And at a certain point, you got to get on with your life. And we're kind of at that point, that kind of point where, you know, either through people's confidence in the vaccination or people just saying the heck with it, I want to live my life, or I'm just frustrated or whatever, and stripping away all the politicization, which I don't know why everything's been politicized, not everything's political, but everything seems to be politicized. I would agree. What have you been cause you have such a interesting group of clientele who are interested in high performance, but of course they're subjected to a massive amount of anxiety. What have you been suggesting for people through the process and maybe what you've done and then what was the unexpected results? Because you said there was a transformation that happened for you. So I'd like to kind of unwind that a little bit since the last time we talked.

 Oz Garcia: I think that you gotta be involved. You have to eat, you have to keep your mind growing. You do have to stay in a process where you're improving, like James Clear would say about 1% per day. So that, that you're not,uuconsumed by your fear and your anxiety only, activity and action will take apart anxiety. So, if you have curiosity, if you can work on, our passion then, and I'm not saying this like platitudes, but I'm being very, very frank, there's got to be some way that your day is set up so that you're moving through any number of things that are preparing you and, and disarming the tendency to go overboard, to go into anxiety. Right. And, you'll hear, formany people, certainly clients of mine and friends, how they've used the time creatively, constructively, you know, their lives have taken completely different directions.

 Oz Garcia: Some have even moved out of the country and I never would have believed that and, and discovered other things to do with their life that never would have happened. For me, becoming a blogger and writing now almost every day, which is something that I want to do. And, having an office set up where I've got all my writing materials and everything is prepared for me to like, you know, start getting in there and doing my book and days would go by and I just wouldn't do it during the pandemic. I actually began to sit down and journal. And, I think that that's probably one of the more, iportant things that we can do. There are any number of journals available, you know, five minute journal is one of my favorites. You can do it either on an app.

 Oz Garcia: I think Ryan Holiday, who's probably one of the leading thinkers in stoicism. And I know you probably have great admiration from, is this came out with this fantastic journal that has a stoic saying every day that you have to answer and it kind of sets you up, or, or using,Sam Harris is app waking up so that you start your day, you know, kind of like in a thoughtful place, like instead of being preoccupied in the waves that we all are certainly after the first cup of coffee, like, Oh, well, that's something I think I should be thinking about today. And, in that way, what you're finding is that you've actually become more authentic within the period of time that you invested in reinventing yourself over and over. So I don't think I would be thinking the way that I'm thinking today had this now occurred.

 Oz Garcia: There are certainly other ways that we could have learned many of these lessons, did we have to go into the bowels of despair and the, you know, get a pandemic in order to like, discover that what I really want in life is, is peace of mind, not another hundred grand or another million or another billion and whether or not Madison Avenue is open or not. You know, that somebody actually said that to me, you know, I can't go shopping. I can't remember if it was last summer, or not, you know, all the shops are closed and I'm like, wow, wow, really? You know, like, when does it get back to normal? What exactly are we looking to define here when we're talking about normal and happiness and fulfillment and satisfaction and so on,

 Wade Lightheart: I think you bring up a good point in this idea of normal. And of course, in the biohacking community, that's like something that's just like a bad word. No one wants to be normal. We want to be super optimized and healthy and high performance and Bulletproof and all of those wonderful suburb relatives. And we see this theme in the last, maybe five to 10 years of an expansion of like this superhero image throughout movies and all of this, and these icons of people who can transcend all the anxieties of the world of a highly advancing technological society. Right. But what you're really talking about here is in order to make that leap in a way that's going to be fulfilling if I don't want to put your words, your mouth, but it seems like your thing. There's some other things about the human condition that we have to work out other than my parameters on my blood pressure and my lean body mass tissue, and how much deep sleep that I got last night which are all well and relative indicators of what I would say, quantitative performance wellness, but what you're doing on, yeah, you're talking, let's talk about qualitative aspects, but let's get into that.

 Wade Lightheart: Cause I think that's where we're really going here. What's beyond the numbers, what's beyond the, tokens of success or achievement or accomplishment or self-value or all of that, which it's very easy to get caught up in. Where is this taking you in and why is that so important in winning?

 Oz Garcia: There's a couple of ways. And when I answered, I think one,is peace of mind. So that's not something that comes to a person's mind right away. Right. So, the way that the culture appears to be set up, having been around now, 0 years is, rom my observation, go to school, go to the right high school, go to the right university, mrry the right person, have the right amount of kids, make sure that you've got the right career track, o career path. And, beyond that, tere are people that may invest in, in other aspects of growth, but many don't. So what we find is a lot of, sadness in people, you know, if you scratched the surface of many of those among the wealthiest, uh t you'll find is how much suffering is stuffed in their bodies. So, so they missed the point. They got the kids, they got the wife, they got the car, they got the money, you know, they've got the public image, but what they're missing is, a undamental aspect of what it means to be alive before you die, which , was this meaningful that I get peace of mind, am I happy? And these are fundamental and critical questions.

 Wade Lightheart: I used to call it when I was a personal trainer back in Vancouver, I was dealing with a lot of the who's who in Vancouver. And I remember people would come to me to get fed or whatever, and they had everything in life and, and they say, well, you know, I used to say to them in our introductory session, I said, well, getting you fit is relatively easy. It's about you committing to what I'm going to provide for you. And there's going to be an outcome I said, but here's where the real question is going to be working together. And I said, is determining what you think that you're going to gain from being in that condition. Why do you think the payoff is? And what I discovered is most of the people that I was dealing with, were dealing with what you identified the golden handcuffs of success.

 Wade Lightheart: And, you know, and at least in a lucid moment, they'd say like, I can remember one major executive, a multinational corporation who is one of the top executives of the year, great guy, beautiful family home. And I said, what's what do you really think? And he says, I keep having this reoccurring dream that I want to have a, build a boat in Indonesia. And I can just see me going out into the water. But then when I'm build this little boat, it sinks, this is a sort of current theme. Right. And it was, it struck me and then another one of my clients. So I'm still in contact with a lot of these there, because his whole business was family business, very successful, completely transformed. He hasn't been able to go to work lost millions and millions of dollars, still uncertainty, but he's now biking with his kids. He built a gym in his house. He's training with his family, his kids are, he beat the generational dysfunction around health. And he says, you know, I actually, he says, I don't want to go back to my old life. I'm really happy. So is that what you're talking about?

 Oz Garcia: Absolutely that kind of nails it in large measure. Look, we all need to be fit. We all need to eat in a particular manner. You and I recognize that there are habits and practices from intermittent fasting to the use of certain supplementation. How it is that we sleep, being very clear of the quality of the sleep that we get. And, we, you and I could drill down any one of those for a complete show right there. This is so much there, but it used to be that I was looking at any one of these things to embellish my public image. You know, I'm a great marathoner the celebrity nutritionist to the stars as though any of that mattered. And what I'm finding out is yes, I want to be fit so long as it's moving me towards a certain amount of peace of mind.

 Oz Garcia: I get 4% out of that 8%, 10% if I skip dinner and I do intermittent fasting, cause it gave me a little bit more peace of mind if I'm doing my meditations how much more is that going to get me? So, that you can wake up and, and be at peace with any number of things in your life where you're not losing it for the smallest things that, that affect people on a regular basis, having angry, outbursts over absolutely nothing. And, being caught up in immediacy, the concerns of, of what do I need to do now to stabilize myself instead of putting in the long haul work that will get you there, you know, in a year two, three, and so on, some people have actually figured it out like this guy, they got the money, they got the circumstances and they recognize that they can actually retrieved from the world and, examined their value system, you know, maybe go hang out, t some sort of Ashraam for a while, wth Jack Kornfeld in Northern California and do, and, hve a pasta for, 10 days or a month.

 Oz Garcia: And, what, what will come of that for you. So I think that theseways of thinking, even though they sound a bit, woo, actually make you much more capable of being in the world now with the circumstances that we're dealing, how tough do you need to be? You got to be really tough to get to these times. You have to have an immense amount of grit you need to deal with circumstances better in large measure, almost impossible to confront. And, so what I'm proposing is, ontemplation in the ways that, that you and I are talking right now, that will, that will allow you to live through this without losing your, your, you know, S H I T, along the way.

 Wade Lightheart: So you're sitting at your desk, you're going to write the new biohacking book you're sitting, right. The days are going by, you're not writing and what going, what triggered the light bulb and the pivot, or this kind of activation of maybe a deeper aspect of yourself that was always there, but the circumstances are kind of bringing it up to, to flourish. Would you, say that it's probably something that's been inside of you for a long, long, time?

 Oz Garcia: Yeah. You just read my mind. I've already authored four books. One was a New York times bestseller. I've had that success and, without realizing it, you're, you're kind of looking for it again until the circumstances change. What, was invisible,emained invisible, why am I doing this book? Exactly. Do I want to stay competitive or do I want to make a difference? So, now what I'm looking at is I certainly want to make a difference. I got a long way to go in terms of, dealing with other aspects of my character that I still think I need to work on, you know, as we all do. But man, this process with, with the pandemic accelerated events, turningly accelerated events, Wade.

 Wade Lightheart: So, at what point did you go, I need to go in this direction.

 Oz Garcia: I think during the summer, as business is changing the one-on-one obviously wasn't going to continue, not in the form that it was in and with a lot more time to myself kind of figuring it out that there are people who I loved it. I would say their mentors,reading a lot more, all of a sudden, going from a book a month to like a book a week, which was my habit for years and, and filling my brain up with other people's remarkable thinking and going, you know, does what you have to say in terms of a biohacking book, going to really be a satisfying experience and look at the struggle you're having. Probably because it wasn't an authentic expression of who I was or what I wanted to put into the world, you know, like a rock star book. So that, I think during the summer that flip and I recall, I do recall points where what I started doing was, was just beginning to journal. And, and once journaling began, began, and it started to go, itensively, then I started to write essays and the essays were almost like writing a journal. And what was coming out was completely unexpected. Like I was channeling some sort of entity from another universe. And I found that to be very meaningful,

 Wade Lightheart: Beautifully put and said, and well done. And I think something that we can all take from develop perspective. I know I, in my own life, I've made some pivots not to the same extent. What were, what were your support mechanisms? I would say that you were drawing from, because oftentimes I think it was the, Russians who actually came up to the conclusion with deep, psychological testing, that it wasn't fear of death. That was the ultimate fear. It was the fear of loss of identity. And I think one of the big things that when you're as successful as you are, or you're known as whatever it happens to be, whether that's an, A Lister or a top executive or an entertainer, whatever it happens to be, and you see this happening with people who retire, they lose their sense of identity and can be devastating. And I think there's a lot of identities that were challenged in this current situation. Like, you don't see your colleagues at work. You don't go to that job. Maybe your job, maybe your best didn't work out, or what happened, all these sorts of things, which are come part and parcel with the physiology, right? There's a, there's like, like an there's an avatar or a conversation in her head that's associated with what we do when you meet people. What do you do? Right. It's as well

 Oz Garcia: Take out your wallet and you show them that you have a black American express card and, and you introduce your ambassador to them.

 Wade Lightheart: Yes.

 Oz Garcia: Your public self, you know, let me show you who I am, you know, really, really that's really you, And then they move in with you and, and, and regret it. Like, how do I get out of this mess?

 Wade Lightheart: And Fox said, when people are dating, is it, you don't meet the person you're dating, you meet their representative.

 Oz Garcia: Oh, of course. No. I mean, the history of public and private lives , of Kings, of emperors, of, people that live during the middle ages, what went on for them, you know, what goes on for anybody today, but we have a culture where there's a very sharp divide between public and private self, and many of us work to embellish the public self as much as we can. And I had and a lot of work goes into a lot of effort for many people, I think for some people the challenge when, when the public self is challenged they don't deal with it that well at all, you know, we could look at criminal,events like, like the, like what,uwhat, what occurred with Madoff? How many, how many individuals have built up their whole public image around the fact that they were connected to Madoff and they'll, they'll commit suicide, you know, lost fortunes, public identities,wound up being criminalized themselves.

 Oz Garcia: So, how much money do you need to be happy? You know, it was one more billion going to do it for you when you already have 45 billion. You know, I'm listening now to a case involving a very well-known fund leader. And they're probably managed about $449 billion a year, half a trillion in funds. And, and the guy doesn't seem to be all that happy at all, you know, going through a case now and being removed from certain boards. And, I could be happy, you know, with a fraction 0.0001% of that amount of money and many people that study happiness that are,invested in the neurochemistry of it would tell you, you know, pass a certain amount of money. You don't get an increase in happiness.

 Wade Lightheart: It's 150,000. It tops out some state that he's done about it, the increased level of hap it's 75 to 150 is the sweet spot, obviously where you are New York's probably 150, for sure. Just with the expense, as opposed to like, you know, where I'm from, Mncton, New Brunswick, Canada, we're 75, man. You're, living large.

 Oz Garcia: Sure.

 Wade Lightheart: So in this Renaissance or it seems like this cocooning or the winter that society has experienced, and maybe in your own pursuits that you're seeing this change, but it's giving forth this blossoming effort. What did you do? What, like, how did you embrace this and who were the people that you leaned on to say, Hey, you know, what did you have people that you're talking to? It's like, Hey, you know what I'm thinking, I'm stepping away a little bit from this biohacking book. I'm kind of going into this more intuitive, meditative, spiritual kind of space.

 Oz Garcia: You know I have one, one dear friend. Who's also a good coach and we've been around each other for decades. And he has a house out by the beach in, Eastern long Island. So we spent a lot of time out there talking and, aring back and forth, ind of the way that we're doing right now, but you can spend a weekend or I sat there for a week. And, the conversations with, him were critical, kid of, the mentor that you would love to have very successful, woderful family, wonderful children. And at this point, um enting his life , in ways that he never would have thought so, that was really key for me in terms of my thinking. I throw myself with the courses often.

 Oz Garcia: I love the work of Steven Kotler and flow collective, and to get online every day and spend an hour or two where you're examining certain things and pushing yourself to see the world from a whole other perspective, like, like, like, okay, let me look at it from this point of view. I think eventually you take on multiple points of view, kind of like a circus,Acrobat that has all those poles with different plates on them. And your job is to keep them all up in the air at the, at least that's his job and not drop it. And, you'll, you can find them that you can hold multiple points of view on anything. And if you're good, you can shift. But the point is, what's the lesson learned in any one of those, and what do you take back? What are you going to give back into the world? And, what you want to do is, is get stronger out of these kinds of inquiries or studies depending, I mean, stronger necessarily like this, but strong in terms of …

 Wade Lightheart: To find that what you mean by strength is strength. I think it comes in a lot more forms than physical brute strength. Is it types of strength?

 Oz Garcia: I think that what the world requires of us now is to be very well prepared, very well equipped, to think on our feet in ways thatprobably before we weren't thinking about, I think the resilience required right now. I mentioned grip before I forget who the author is of that particular book, but throwing yourself into the kind of process possible partial process that I'm in. And I know that you're, you're probably into is being an equivalent match to what's happening so that you're not, you're not scared, right? That, at core, what you, what you have is a certain degree of tranquility, and you can look out at what's going on and be able to think about it, you know, not freak out about it, can I think about this?

 Oz Garcia: So do you want to go do a workshop, course go do that, whatever it is that's going to shake you up from the rumination and the worry and the regrets and what I could have done, and, what's going to happen. Like, like, can, can you continue to shut that down long enough? You know, what Kotler,would call, being in a flow state and be here, right? And then, you kind of lose your way periodically, cause we are human after all, but for the most part, be able to be here, use your thinking capacity to actually, like I said before, face the world on terms right now, everything that we've experienced and it's been a hell of a year.

 Wade Lightheart: So what are your writing about these days? What has been these essays that you've been putting out to the world? And, also probably people want to know where they'll find them, we'll get all that stuff, but like, what's got your juices flowing now.

 Oz Garcia: Literally everything we're talking about, you know, this is going to wind up being one of the blogs,they're mainly what I do is I post some on medium, and I'm obviously on Instagram, but mediums become my favorite go-to place right now. And I'll just pull out my phone and start writing and posting that stuff. So in that regard, this is fodder , like I'm already thinking, okay. So I just taught for weight in this book, what came up Oh, that didn't occur to me earlier and then work at tonight for a couple of hours and then have an essay pop out of it. And the other side, you know, this is very rewarding, what you and I are right now. Right. And, not that it takes me away from the fear, but it actually contributes to my peace of mind and stability and, many people wouldn't think of it in that way.

 Wade Lightheart: I was listening recently to Dr. Jordan Peterson outlining where he's been for the last couple of years in the living hell that he's been going through after a physical addiction to benzodiazepines. It's a horrible situation. And he's still, he was describing it, I think to Eric Weinstein, the other Stein the other day. Wow. And they were having a conversation and he was explaining, it, takes them about, 5 hours.

 Oz Garcia: Look it on rebel wisdom or the intellectual dark web.

 Wade Lightheart: I think the dark horse podcast, and then they did [inaudible] and I forget which one he was actually allocating what his day looks like. And it's horrific. Is it like [inaudible]

 Oz Garcia: I got to find that, forget writing a journal tonight. I got to listen to this.

 Wade Lightheart: They're beautiful.

 Oz Garcia: Eric Weinstein is one of my favorite a guy to listen to people in the world. What a brain on that guy's head.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. Both of them, Eric and Brett

 Oz Garcia: Jordan too. I mean,

 Wade Lightheart: And Jordan was talking about, he had, of course he just came out with his book Beyond Order. His first one was 12 Rules for Life. And then you did a lot more rules and it's a very interesting contradiction because the first book was about order. And then second book is about chaos and he's been very mis-characterized about it. But one of the things that I'm getting to this, what you're writing about that, I think he talked about the importance of writing and that it refines one's thoughts in a way that you can re-examine. So his book maps of meaning, he said he edited that book 10 years. Yeah. And each line times. So as you're, you you've collected as most people in our industry would say, you've been to the top of the mountain. So to speak you, you know, the New York times bestseller, that's it you're known A list celebrity you're living in New York,

 Oz Garcia: Got a lot of cheques. Wade Lightheart: You got marble floors on the walls. I mean it's great.

 Wade Lightheart: You talk about this, which I think is so meaningful because you don't need all those things in order to develop meaning out of your life. And the meaning that you develop out of your life is what really accentuates the quality. What aspects have you been refining in your thinking process in you as an expression, as a human, as a biohacker as a being, as a creative artist, which you are all of those things. What is emerged during this writing? Cause I think I want to inspire people about unlocking aspects that they might have forgotten about that has been buried with them for decades, maybe their whole life.

 Oz Garcia: I think this totally caught me by surprise the writing itself, unlike writing books in the ways that I have before, which was intended to get a product out, make money on it, embellish my public self. Right now, based on the fact that I'm studying with different writers, again, like, like Steven Kotler and so on. The very fact that I'm writing, it could be about anything, you know, to do it a stupid five minute journal, you know, what are you grateful for today? Write down three things like, alk my dog to the corner back, you like, you know, you read this like a week or two later and you laugh out loud at the little things that you're grateful for and identify work in Ryan holiday's book. And I get a stoic, ommentary that I need to comment on something else will come of that. And, for some reason, once I started doing the journaling and then the essay writing, Ifound that I hope I'm answering this properly, that I'm loving writing. And I, forgot that. So, even as we're talking, uh,te's an urge to actually go and write. And that wasn't there a year ago. It hasn't been there for a very long time.

 Wade Lightheart: Do you think that our increasing … We live in a world of consumption. And so when people are looking at a video, looking at their phone, looking at a text, looking at that sort of stuff to me, I'm looking at is okay, I am entering into a consumptive process. And do you believe that technology has been so good at stimulating our knee? Or I hate the word, need our desire maybe, or our drives to consume that we've forgotten our ability to produce or the necessity of it.

 Oz Garcia: When if you take a kid, if you take a four or five-year-old kid and put them in front of a TV set and let them watch what they want. And, you've got on the other end,coming at the kid's brain, a little one, one and a half pound brain, which will eventually turn into a two pound brain, that unite,you would hope right, that they're being bombarded with an immense amount of commercial garbage that's intended to neutralize their ability to exhibit common sense. So, if you've got a food industry, a junk food industry, that's got a hundred billion to burn, you know, what capacity does a one and a half pound brain, half against that? And, so if you go onto a Publix in Florida, nthing wrong with shopping there, but it isn't intended for people to shop healthy.

 Oz Garcia: It's in, you know, these shopping carts that are, you know, two, three times, what a shopping cart was when I was growing up, I didn't, they're intended to be filled to the top and people are pushing these things. And, I know it's because they're being exposed to the worst information about what to buy, to take care of themselves. So, I think it becomes more difficult unless you're working on educating yourself. And, I think that's critical. I think you need to read, I think you need to read a lot. I think writing is important. And I think you need to, to, to expand your curiosity so that you don't wind up being a consumer hooked on dopamine every time that something pops up and you got to buy it, you can get dopamine head. You know, dopamine head like a little mouse in labyrinth, you know, that gets cheese at the end, you know, plus dopamine,

 Wade Lightheart: Funny, you should say that because I had this, I'm going to share another strange, but I've been having, because I have been running a considerable amount of thought experiments during this process. I do through my meditation process, I do a little bit of writing. And then I kind of get into the interview and talk to people cause one of my forms, and then I'll sit there on a Saturday evening or something, and I start contemplating and running an experiment. And I'd like to get your opinion on this because it's related to this rat in the maze. And I thought, we know that mathematical algorithms and artificial intelligence are driving a great amount of the distribution of information on the web. And we know that most of the brokers have that information. And I would have to say that I'm one of those people doing this talks we're contributing to this we are sharing information in the hope to capture the attention of the reader and eventually offer what we feel is valuable for them.

 Wade Lightheart: And they do a fair and reasonable exchange for that. But then I got thinking about this because there's a lot of these behaviors that I'm seeing elicited in the public that seem self-destructive, that seem to be moving people, not into an upward trend, with the anabolic responses, but in a catabolic,you know, negative cascade of effects that lead to disease, dysfunction, distress, all depression, all of those. And I got to thinking, well, how much of intelligence has artificial intelligence taken over? And it seems that the product of it right now is division. People are divided by race. People are divided by economics. People are derived by pullout politics. People are divided by sex. People are divided by, it just seems like the end result of everything is division and chaos. And, I got a couple of books over here. I've got,Alexander Solzhenitsyn, an instance, the Gulag Archipelago. I've got the Art of War by Sun Tzu And I'm looking at art of Sun Tzu and I'm looking at his book and I'm like, this looks frighteningly familiar with the strategy. And I'm like, has artificial intelligence simply figured out a way to keep the rats hitting the pellet on the button? And is that unintended or is it intended by either individuals within the state or individuals outside of the state who are not acting in our best interest? And how does one overcome that in either situation? Cause neither one's a good one.

 Oz Garcia: You know some of this is going to sound a little cliche and people have heard enough of it. The fact that Facebook can manipulate people's thinking in the ways that they do and they're only getting better at it. And as they incorporate,,reater aspects of artificial intelligence and can, ean greater data about you, how much more you're a meat puppet, you know, any of the big tech companies, ooks. So, it's an easy answer. , Ou got people like Peter de Montas who writes a lot about the, and he has a singular university and what it is that they're thinking there. And it seems like a more benign future will come if you listening to him. Right. And, here are people that are interested , in that kind of future, you know, Bill Gates, new book, I think is terrific. Everybody ought to read this thing. And,

 Wade Lightheart: What is the book that you're referring to?

 Oz Garcia: That's the one on the climate crisis right now? It's the latest book. You'll get the latest book right now. Can't recall the title now,

 Wade Lightheart: The largest farm owner in America

 Oz Garcia: I think he was asked that in an interview about the book. Just the fact that people are thinking about a benign future, I think is, is good for you. And for me, you know, and, that so much seems to be getting reinvested back into making this a better planet. I was listening today on NPR radio, how the Chinese because they are driven by science primarily good. I think the analysts call them good Stalinist Lennon is they're going to fall behind science. And they're seeing that burning coal is, is catastrophic, not really for the world, but for them, they're actually beginning to, dismantle many coal burning destinations and will likely phase out the use of coal soon enough. So, there, you've got a different kind of ethic that's moving you along. They didn't really care about the rest of the world. You and I are highly empathetic individuals and there's a lot on our minds in terms of what what's going to make for a better future overall. And let's see if we win, you know, let's see if we win against climate change and the forces of evil. And we could talk about that for another hour or two.

 Wade Lightheart: So going back to that because, you know, writing, you're, you're kind of interacting with the digital medium, but you're not really caught within it. Do you have a strategy for navigating that? What I would call the Razor's edge between leveraging the digital world in a way to get your thoughts, your feelings, and that, which is empathizes to the human condition versus being caught as the rat in the AI dopamine trap.

 Oz Garcia: It's doing it. You got to, have this vocabulary. You know, if you're not thinking this isn't on your mind, if you're not thinking about what you're thinking about, you've got a problem now,

 Wade Lightheart: Stage one, if you're not thinking about, well, you're probably not watching this, you're probably like searching Tik Tok videos.

 Oz Garcia: Correct. and if,you're not, like I said, if you've not laid out certain things that now I think are important, I think it was so important when I was 40 to meditate, you know, Naropa, who's going to go there, it. I'm going to put on, you know, my running shorts, my sneakers, and blow out, you know, half a marathon. That's what you got to do, , and be, the tough New Yorker. So, I had certain sensibilities and I can't, I wish I could go back and talk to that person, back in the 1990s. But, but here we are. So, it's about cultivating now, I think mindfulness, and I think that that's a big subject matter in and of itself.

 Wade Lightheart: And another thing that I incur, because I have the great fortune of working with,,a great group of people at my company by optimizers, young motivated, enthusiastic,digitally savvy people who are working the different aspects that it takes for a company to survive in the current culture. And

 Oz Garcia: Remind me.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. And I feel like I'm kind of almost the apologetic geese there that walks in and says, ah, you know, the way we used to do things and recognizing that I grew up in a world without the internet, without constant contact, without telephones, without text messaging, without social media, without YouTube, we had to read a book and the action of reading a book, you manufacture, it's kind of like a guideline, but you're manufacturing the story. And almost anyone that's read a book would see the movie that when the book was made, that's not the way I envisioned it. You know, I think the only guy that ever got it right was Peter Jackson and the Tolkien books, but they were so explicit. It was, there was no room for air. Do you think that the younger generation today, the internet generation, the people that have grown up lived on this, if always had GPS maps, there's have always had the internet that have, are they, what would you see as their advantages? And what would you see is their disadvantages in cultivating a practice of mindfulness, in a sea of chaotic interruptions?

 Oz Garcia: I think that if you're paying attention to being authentic, I think if you're being paying attention to being sincere transparent, then, then life goes a lot easier for you and for everybody. If you're not caught up in generating a public image, you're going to generate some, it's almost impossible not to, but if you're aware of what's going on, you know, then what you have then what's going on. As you're moving through the world already contemplated already being able to make a contribution and understanding the role of being well educated. And I don't mean by, you know, by going to Harvard. So, like doing reading in the ways that you and I are talking about, so I can see how you can get into your,office. And a lot of these young people give you joy.

 Oz Garcia: If indeed this is what's on their mind. And I found that to be true. And, to my own joy, that, you know, this person's really authentic, and if authenticity matters to you, then you can smell it, you know, and, and you and I have been around long enough that when somebody is looking to,ullshit in your way it's toxic, you feel it right. You know, I heard somebody recently speak about that. Somebody who's a scientist and neuroscientists and talking about gut feelings, you know, and there's a lot of enough literature about that. And Malcolm Gladwell has written about a number of his books, but that's what you want as little toxicity around you, no matter what the generation is and the smell of authenticity and sincerity, always the best way to go.

 Wade Lightheart: Well, I think that brings us, we can kind of dive in to a little bit into the bio-hacking aspect of that. I think that's really important. I've just been one of the things that I thought I would do while I've been on somewhat pause, everything. Although my company's done very well is being in the health industry in a digital base has been a good thing in this, and that's almost embarrassingly sell, but I've just engaged in a massive barrage of tests. And I was thinking about, I like to think kind of on broad spectrums of how we can make the most impact as a company. And then I was considering, you know, all these people in the loss of micro biome, diversity dietary habits,and there, you were seeing all these people with all these food restrictions and strange, hesponses to various foods and dietary practices becoming increasingly complex for a lot of people. Do you feel that your experience in your endeavors over the last 30, 40 years in this field has allowed you to have a clearer gut instinct or of manufacturing, the awareness that might not be available for someone who doesn't know that?

 Oz Garcia: All right. So, let me see if I got the question, right. If I got the whole beginning, ask me the question.

 Wade Lightheart: My question is, do you feel that having an optimized micro-biome is essential in order to navigating an increasingly complex world because it gives you that, that BS meter, if you will?

 Oz Garcia: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. You're, you know, if you look at the most mammals elephants, other primates, giraffes, whatever would it be East? Uyeah. Even birds hummingbirds, they'll go out of their way to look for fermented foods. So, rotten fruit that's hit the ground, spoiled elephants. Will get, we'll eat that and get additional probiotics, right. All the way up to you and me. All right. And, and, and so much of the micro-biome is decimated. And, along with that, you, your brain, your thinking, your, your moods, the connection between our micro-biome, our immune system, our ability to think, well, our ability to actually regulate our moods and our temperament better are in large measure, driven by what's found in our totally right. And so replacing,ualmost on a daily basis,probiotics and is, is critical. And, and to have, the kind of knowledge that you would provide and the kind of products that are excellent, you know, you don't want to get your probiotics from your play.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. Everything has probiotics like

 Oz Garcia: With probiotics probiotics, right. Until they have 56 grams of sugars.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. Or you know, a whiskey shot with probiotics. So what are some of the practices that you do in order to, you know, maintain that cognitive clarity in a world of anxiety? Maybe you can walk us through maybe a day in the life of, you know, how you would start your day, because as being the pinnacle and then maybe take us backwards, maybe where someone else who isn't, you know, hasn't cultivated all the practices that you have, where they would start.

 Oz Garcia: Sure. I think so I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you what you want and people can kind of cherry pick from there. Right. and this is some my practices,I've worked on and developed over many years. I think it began with the discipline of being a long distance runner and whatever got into me back in the seventies, run a marathon, hat kind of disciplined way of being has served me very well. That doesn't mean I go off, I don't go out the ranch from time to time. I'm part of the goody-goody right. So, umhe day has to start off in certain manner. I stopped listening to the news a long time ago. I rarely read the papers. I may listen to MPR when I get up for a few minutes as I'm yawning, going to the bathroom, stuff like that.

 Oz Garcia: And then it's music. So I love classic jazz that goes on right away. And then I come into the kitchen, I had to make a smoothie or a beverage. And I lay out the supplementation that I'm going to use is a lot of, of nootropics. For those that are listening, that don't know, these are nutrients, if you can call them that actually,maximized how well your brain works. So, I'm a big fan of different kinds. Again, depending on what it is I'm looking for that day,

 Wade Lightheart: A lot of people don't realize that the different nootropics combinations lead to different brain States. And I think nootropics are kind of for the uneducated or unexperienced, they're kind of put as, Oh, I'm just going to be smarter, but some crate focus, some create a verbal fluency, others are more creative or, you know.

 Oz Garcia: So, in that regardI'm working with my nootropics, the things that I would say, fight agent, and by that, I mean, decrepitude. So that, I mean, I'm real clear that my battery packs are going to run out at some point that I'm out of here. You know, like, like the wishful thinking that, that we have when we're in our twenties, it's fascinating how you think at this point. But what I want is I want the high degree of functionality. How do I maintain my muscle mass? How do I maintain my appearance in ways that you know, all us vain human beings will exhibit, but without being grotesque about it. So, so they're very …

 Wade Lightheart: Functionally vain we'll call it, let's call that.

 Oz Garcia: And that's how I begin my morning. So I'll have that these kinds of secret potions,NAD, for sure. I think your listeners would want to know, I think a great deal of, so I use NAD that also goes into my IVs whenever I get those done. We'll talk about that in a moment. After that, I do probably about 45 minutes of meditation and deep breathing and, that's served me really well as I've gotten older. Since there are no gyms, I've got kind of like my own home, TRX, my own home Equinox, all that kind of stuff. So I'll do a workout probably for about another 45. So the morning it's almost three hours that I'm dedicated to my body may or may not know.

 Wade Lightheart: What time do you get up?

 Oz Garcia: About five 30, 6:00 AM

 Wade Lightheart: You get up and get after it right after it, you take your noots before we use noots at the company, do you take your nootropics, before you do your meditation and breathing guide them, and then you do you do that, and then you do the shake and then you do the workout.

 Oz Garcia: That's correct. Right.

 Wade Lightheart: So you don't eat before the meditation, but after right. Okay.

 Oz Garcia: Yeah. That's why typically I have a beverage that has everything from tyrasine to oat straw. There's a whole bunch of stuff that goes in there that along with nootropic powders I'll put an antisemite in the air and it winds up being like some mad scientist beverage, but you feel terrific.

 Wade Lightheart: I'm with you on that one. I get it.

 Oz Garcia: Levels that are coming, that I know are going to come on in 10 minutes with someone are going to come on in about an hour or two. So, again, the years of experimenting kind of already given me the primer for this,uonce I've done all of that, I may do an ice bath or an ice shower, depending on how much time I got. So I'll run down to Walgreens, get 40 pounds of ice into the tub, fill it up about one-third of the way. And I go, and soak,depending on what my mood is from 10 minutes to 20 minutes.

 Wade Lightheart: Wow. That's impressive.

 Oz Garcia: I think so, too, but it took me a long time.

 Wade Lightheart: That's how long did it take you to get to that point?

 Oz Garcia: It took me years.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. Like one minute for most people is intolerable three it's like you're a true He-Man or she woman, if you can do three minutes,

 Oz Garcia: Well, what would happen was we had an office in Moscow for many years and,whenever we'd be there working,m friends or clients would take me to the Russian bath houses, the, the real traditional ones. And if you couldn't do their cold plunges, that was it. I mean, why would I use it as a nutritionist? So the act got me to look at how the fins use, old plunges when they do finish saunas. And then that led me to the studies on cold water swimmers that eventually led me to Wim Hoff. And here we are, you don't see the cryotherapy or ice baths.

 Wade Lightheart: Beautiful. Beautiful. And, do you do a type of Wim Hoff breathing to kind of endure that kind of cold in order to [inaudible]

 Oz Garcia: When you're in there? I go quiet. Yeah. You know, where I think, has it tricked out so that you do a certain, you know, his, his breathing technique? I go real quiet. I put on a semi yoga, nidra meditation from YouTube on my Alexa. And it's kinda like, don't talk in your head.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. And you guys, when I'm doing cold therapy, I go down to Bulletproof for example, to jump the cryo. Do you want music? And I'm like, no, I want to be with my breath. Now, do you separate, is there a point where you're separating from the sensation of the cold in that.

 Oz Garcia: You disassociated at a certain point?

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. There's a point where you kind of like, you feel the cold coming on, but then you can go into the breath or your mind, and then now that's an external, and then you kind of, there's a point where you kind of can wobble back to the cold or you can kind of go beyond, do you know when that kicks in for you?

 Oz Garcia: Yeah. I'm very clear. And, in almost instinctual at this point, it's kind of like, I know it's over, right? Like today was, was 10 minutes. It was 15. Today was 20 and I get it, but it's part of the whole process. So again, I'm looking for different portholes to regulate what's going on with my body so that I can maintain biological autonomy as the years go on. Okay. This sounds like a lot of nonsense, or this sounds like it could be useful. Let me do search, maybe reach out to you or you know, Dave, whatever, and get the feedback that I may require an either incorporated or not.

 Wade Lightheart: Beautifully said. I mean, that's really great. So we were out of the bath, you've done your 10 20 minutes.

 Oz Garcia: Oh, that's it. Then I'll turn on my phone. Then the Wi-Fi goes on.

 Wade Lightheart: You shut the Wi-Fi off at night.

 Oz Garcia: Yeah. It goes off. And same thing. They're, [inaudible 01:09:57], I'm not going to turn it off. I'm going to keep it so that I can watch Netflix. but for the most part, I'd say three, four nights a week, it goes off phone has to go off. Right. And, 'm not, that's not where I'm all that crazy, but still I recognize the difference that it does make.

 Wade Lightheart: Okay. So now we get out of that and you're on with your day, you're pounding back your shake with all your wonderful goodies. Then what happens in the run of your day?

 Oz Garcia: You know it used to be a real typical anxiety filled day. So everything's a crisis.

 Wade Lightheart: Coffee. You take coffee.

 Oz Garcia: No, no, not that I haven't slipped over the years. But in terms of, my day to day reality, I'd rather have a nice big scoop of matcha tea in my smoothie or my beverage that gives me enough caffeine. I do like caffeine. I'll be very [inaudible]

 Wade Lightheart: Just the right amount with enough [inaudible] to kind of offset it.

 Oz Garcia: Absolutely. Yeah. You know caffeine anhydrous, which is in some of the supplements that I use. So it's kind of like, I'm staying a certain range as much as I'd love to have coffee. It does make me crash later in the day. Different for different people.

 Wade Lightheart: It depends on that how you metabolize caffeine, if you're a slow metabolizer, fast metabolizer, but you told me your story beforehand, that you mean it was like coffee, where you grew up. It's like eight o'clock expresses at 10 o'clock at night.

 Oz Garcia: I got out of the habit once I fell out of the habit in the seventies, then whenever I'd have it, I'd crashed. So I realized that that must have played a role over the years in my problems with energy, my problems with my mood. That was the first time in my life where I really experienced just really clean, clear, and stuff moves for long periods of time. Once I started fasting. And once I started to do water fast, the clarity of mind was indescribable, you know? And it solved a lot of issues for me. So, same thing, you know, talking about fasting and intermittent fasting, your thing is really critical. The, day itself now is very well-planned. I don't use a computer. I tend to plan the evening before, or as soon as I get into the office and I use a pencil and eraser and a pad, right.

 Wade Lightheart: I love it. So I keep my paper and I'm an old school guy that way I find if I write it, I seem to be able to recall, or it makes a bigger impression even, but I don't go back and read what I wrote. It, it makes a deeper impression,

 Oz Garcia: Huge difference. And, I must've gone through, I don't know, a hundred apps over the years to, to manage your time better and I never used them. So, there are people that are better disposed to that. I'm not one of them. And then we kind of plan out, we planned out how my schedule should be for the week in terms of who I'm going to talk to. When do I get my outdoor break, everybody's got to get outdoors at some point when not to be answering emails used to be a game, you know, like emails, zero, okay. Now the 20 came in again and, to get, you know, break that habit and make sure that I'm unsubscribed and get, get as much off. And then that's been really critical in garnering some more peace of mind.

 Oz Garcia: I don't have notifications on, so I'm not bothered during the day. I do check in for texts and I'd say about every hour, mainly because my clients have my number and I got to see what's going on so I can walk out at the end of the day, you know, I would say innovative state, not innovative, I'm not wiped out and complaining. And I got to go to Lincoln center, get a bottle of wine. And, Oh my God, you know, like with about how hard my day was, you know, it's like, Oh my God, you know, like I'm going to go home and in journal, work on something for a while. It was a great movie. I want to see I got to dive into this particular book. So it's again, I think an aspect of maturation, emotional intelligence overriding my impulsiveness, you know, I'd much rather go have the bottle of Chardonnay and, you know, it's been years that I would allow myself to be driven that way, you know? So, the days tend to be much more rewarding now. And again, I think a lot of it has to do with, my age and where I'm at, how it is that my thinking has evolved my capacity though, it's not all that different than it may have been about 30 years ago. But, but that's part of the biohacking, a lot of what it is that we're doing

 Wade Lightheart: Now, what time would you start winding into your work day and maybe into your more, I would say, introspective or educational pursuits?

 Oz Garcia: As soon as possible, as soon as you and I are done. It's, I already know exactly what I plan. Yeah. I'm going to read for awhile. I got to get up real early tomorrow. And I'm surprised that that's the way it is, where as it used to be like, you know, what chick am I going to meet? Where are we going to dinner? We've got a wine and, that was life in New York. It's like, that's the way it was.

 Wade Lightheart: So what does the evening look like? And is there any nutritional supplements that you like to use in the evening? Cause we kind of, we got you dialed in into the, kind of the perfect zone with your practices and you've got nude it up, as we like to say. And you went about your day, you dealt with your clients, did your work load. Now you're kind of shifting into the evening mode. What happens then?

 Oz Garcia: Magnesium, Tori, magnesium, glycinate, ashwagandha, Bacopa L-serne,a little bit of the Camelot, which is a combination of niacin and GABAA,super omega-3, that's a combination of fish oil, krill, oil, Sesame, seed oil, and Sesame lignans. I'm just scanning. There's a new extract of a particular fruit that I've been asked to look at that actually supposed to improve,muscle function. And I'm not convinced yet, but that's in with the mix. Oh, L-lysine on its own separate from magnesium glycinate. I take carnosine at night, not during the daytime. I take lots of titles. Serene also, a nighttime seems to work a lot better, small amounts of B6, u, improve the quality of my sleep. Magnolia, poppy seed extract. That pretty much does it, it's kind of like a small cup filled with supplements, but I'm very accustomed to it. It may take me, as I'm winding down about an hour to get them all down.

 Wade Lightheart: Right. And then what time would it be lights out for you?

 Oz Garcia: Tonight it's probably going to be early plus, like, I feel it's going to be an early day tomorrow, so we're at about six 30, I'd say probably by about 8:30 today.

 Wade Lightheart: Okay. So you're in bed early up early.

 Oz Garcia: Yes.

 Wade Lightheart: I think in the chronotypes it's a lion.

 Oz Garcia: Well, you know, the way it was for me, it used to be like 12 one, two, and then up at, at six or seven, who cares if you're tired, you know,

 Wade Lightheart: That's a New York life, right?

 Oz Garcia: Yeah. You and I spat take some [inaudible] you know, a couple of other nootropics that are just gonna push it there. And you're like going,

 Wade Lightheart: It's just like the New York way right.

 Oz Garcia: [Inaudible] To do it, you know, like I'm here.

 Wade Lightheart: So let's bring this all together because I think it's safe to say that we're emerging into a new paradigm of humanity. Andi'm a big fan of I have read,you've all Noah Yuval, Noah Harari, Satan and lessons for the 21st century and homo Deus homo dues, which are remarkable, very, very interesting books. And he categorized either like,we're in this evolutionary shift and I think that's very true. And what's maybe different about this one than maybe previous adaptations. So Charles go back to Darwinian theory, Darwin said that it, he didn't actually say it's survival of the most fittest. He said, it's survival of the most adaptable. There you go. And, and I always love his reference to the blue footed booby bird, which was the most adaptable bird. And I thought that's really always stuck with me, but traditionally, other than tribal warfare, hich certainly was definitely, genetic influencer.

 Oz Garcia: That's correct.

 Wade Lightheart: It's much of what we dealt with as humans where environmental components that were influencing us. That's interesting now in the rapid technological advancement, particularly since world war two, the splitting of the atom changed everything. Now we have the ability to not just to annihilate the tribe next to us, but just to annihilate everything leads certainly ethical and morale, moralistic and philosophical components. But then we have also to contend with the identity of the fusion, you know, as,Elon Musk says, we're already cybernetic organisms, we just haven't fully completed the attachment. And then we have the transhumanists that are emerging saying, you know, whether it's the Kurzweilian folks that says the singularity is unavoidable and happening very soon, certain themes. And then we have genetic manipulation where we are actually actively mutating the species with CRISPR genes, you know, people doing this right now today. And then we have a whole cascade of, I would say, homo biologists, homo digitalis. And I believe there's another Avenue which is homo spirituality, or Spiritus. Where do you think that you fit in and where do you see this all going?

 Oz Garcia: I think the last category, you know, very much stuff that doesn't mean that I'm anti-technology in any way at all, I've got great admiration for Elon Musk. That's not the game that I'm interested in playing at all. There may have been a time when I would have but he's fascinating to watch. And certainly you can see possibility in terms of where some human beings are going. In reading Ferrari's work I was very inspired, you know, in terms of our history where we began, how it all began and you know, where it's at and where it's going listening to him, listening to him, lecture and talk, certainly being a great fan of, of Sam Harris and reading everything by Sam and listening to Sam, everything has to talk about, I recognize that a fall into that last category.

 Oz Garcia: So, you can be on the neuroscientific side, right. And, listen to some of, the great minds out of Stanford. And at the same time, maintain a spiritual core, knowing that you don't know all that much, kind of like what we said before, you know, like, as I get older I'm amazed that I, I, I used to be such a know-it-all and took pride in that. And, I know many people would say, well, there's a degree of insincerity and saying that it is knowing the fact is, I don't know anything, like, and that gives me a lot of room to, to express my curiosity and have these terrific conversations where, you know, you and I can ping pong back and forth and just about anything can pop up in the conversation and then go with that.

 Oz Garcia: So, I've got optimism about what I'm noticing the, the, the growing movement with implant medicine what's occurring there, what people are discovering for themselves, how it is that soldiers returning from Afghanistan and the Wars in, Iraq are treating themselves with everything from MDMA to suicide. I lost I'm like, wow. You know, and, and the fact that ketamine is being used to deal with PTSD also. So I've got a lot of faith in that too. And, watching how many people are moving over to the good side. Right. And, like I said, I don't know how much more time I may have left based on whatever my genetics have baked into my battery pack, but,I'm going to take my chances with that.

 Wade Lightheart: What does the future look like directly for you as opposed to humanity at large? Because you're doing so many things that have contributed to the world of, I would say, a healthy, optimal aging, right. Voice for many, many years, and certainly a trendsetter as evidenced by your incredible array of work, being a futurist in the past, it's hard for you to separate that again. And so at this stage, what do you see for yourself happening in the next 10, 20, 30 years, or, beyond that?

 Oz Garcia: You know, I, it was funny over the weekend, somebody asked a question, not on similar to that way. And,I thought to myself, you know, wouldn't it be great if, if you went and you spent,a year or two in an Ashram that the fact that, that occurred to me at all, like a Zen Buddhist retreat, you know, maybe here in the States or outside of the country, that, that wouldn't have occurred to me,five years ago, let alone a year ago.

 Wade Lightheart: Well, that's the three stages classical stages in Indian philosophy, right? You start your training under the guidance of the spiritual teacher, and then you develop a craft and a capability, and you go into the world and you make your Mark in the world, or raise a family. And then once we get rid of that, you go off into the forest into deeper contemplation about the whole thing, which leads me to the next phase.

 Oz Garcia: But I do want to point something out too, in that regard, I'm being very sincere. In other words, the thoughtappeal to me, not like, ah, you know, I'll never get to see, you know, Africa was more like, wow, we're like, what, what would it take to down, get online? You know, what would it take to spend six months in a retreat with Jack [inaudible 01:26:07 ]? So that things like that are really on my mind, I think working on consciousness more andthe intersection of neuroscience and spirituality right there.

 Wade Lightheart: I love it. And I'm rating that lockstep with that side of things. And so if you can, one of the contemplations that I think is very important for people to engage in. And so many people in the West think it is macabre, but I think it's an essential component to living in that is the contemplation of the cessation of one's own physical existence. And it brings up a variety of anxieties, of course, but we all have to face that at some point. And I think it's something that's common later in life, but I think the sooner that one does it, the more one can live life through it. So thing, because it's kind of like the thing that no one wants to deal, especially in the West, because we don't really deal with death the way that we deal with it in other parts of the world, you know, like if you're walking down the street in India, death is everywhere.

 Wade Lightheart: If you're living in the middle East and you're in a war torn country or in South central Africa where you're just the horrors of human condition, are it strikes me. So ironically, how many people are living in the most technologically fruitful, productive, vibrant place in the world. And they're paralyzed with fear that a propagation of information from things and they've, and they've completely shut their lives down, hoping to think worried about their death. And it's like, well, why don't you just contemplate your death? And then start beginning from life there. My point being … In your opinion, is consciousness. How would you relate consciousness to your self and how would you see that transition?

 Oz Garcia: I'm very reconciled too, that I won't be here someday that I've worked through. And it kind of just showed up one day, not, not like, like some, some revelation. I was just aware hat, you know, I'm out of here too. Maybe probably after losing my dad, that became a greater reality, a mother being a student of history, recognizing that there have been great empires remarkable people that have lived and they're all gone everybody's out of here. So, at some point,and I suspect plant medicine has always made a big difference in this. I became aware Wade after a while I was just okay with it. I know like just, wasn't all that disturbed by it, whereas you and I both know when we're in our, you know, the, the height of our youth, it's like, we're going to be around you forever these days.

 Oz Garcia: It's why so much time goes into taking advantage of almost every moment. You know, how it is that I fill it up is because I am aware now of something ticking a little bit quicker. Day seem to go by quicker evenings, go by quicker. I can't believe the time that it is at the time that I started this morning. And, we are part of a culture where people don't look to reconcile themselves with definitive, you know, the fact that it will end. I don't know if you asked me if I'm interested. If, things go on afterwards, had you asked me that question say, six years ago, I would have said no, you know, just ends now. I really don't know, you know, with, much of what I've done in the past five or six years, I do wonder now. And that I think is a much better place than when I was in before.

 Wade Lightheart: Do you feel that there's to me, I've reframed biological optimization or the biohacking community, whatever it is. And there's so many people who I think are looking at it from how long can I live? Like you see these common wild statements. I want to live to 150. And I was asked this not so long ago in a podcast with Matt, myself and Dave asked, they were all kind of putting in what they felt they were going to live. And I threw up,

 Oz Garcia: They want to live for forever. You know what I mean? He's got, he doesn't even have a car. He has a Sherman tank. Yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: And I threw up a number on, in the conversation and I instantly felt insincere about it when I said it. Okay. I feel like I got to throw up a remarkable number because I just got blown out of the water by my business partner. But recent events, I had a very powerful, spiritual experience, not that long ago. And what I recognized is that maybe biological optimization is to prepare oneself or an active transition where one is anticipating going through the door, as opposed to dreading it.

 Oz Garcia: It's very funny. You would say that I've made a joke out of the fact that I want to be biologically optimized enough to be running central park at, in my nineties or early hundreds and just drop dead on, on the horse track. Right. So, so that's what I would want bio optimization for it. You know, I can still get that last run out. That's going to get me to heaven.

 Wade Lightheart: Paul Bragg.

 Oz Garcia: There you go. Wade Lightheart: Got taken out surfing.

 Oz Garcia: Absolutely. [inaudible] you know, out in Hawaii.

 Wade Lightheart: Oh, is this has been amazing. I'm going to leave it at that. I think, can you share it with people where they can reach out and find something, your latest writings? And of course all of the work that you've done, you've been such a great contributor to this industry. And I look forward to many, many decades to come

 Oz Garcia: Me too. Me too. You know, I got to come visit you when I'm out there. They can, they can start looking at more,uyou know, look me up on Instagram, Facebook. I think I'm going to fire up again. I'm beginning to post my essays on, I had at Oz Oz life now, hey tend to be a little bit on the dark side. So, warning in that regard. And of course my website,

 Wade Lightheart: Pleasure conversations, a great camp. Can't wait till we do this in person. I look forward to it and for all our listeners today, I want to thank you for joining us. I hope that we dove a little bit deeper than the normal conversations, but with such a wise and experienced man, I just am grateful that you are sharing your thoughts, your feelings, and where you are and where that could lead some of us as we are on our journey, this thing called life.

 Oz Garcia: Thanks, Wade. I'll see you soon. Send you a lot of love, bro.

 Wade Lightheart: You got it.
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