116: Is Your Sunscreen Causing Health Problems? – with Guerry Grune

His 22-year-old surfing buddy came down with melanoma, and that is when Guerry knew he needed to find a better way to protect skin from the sun. 

Guerry (pronounced “Gary”) began researching sunscreen products and was appalled by what he found – all the available sunscreens pretty much sucked. In fact, it was worse than that: sunscreen products still are not doing what they say they do and are counterproductive – even causing some shocking health problems.

Except for one brand – a sunscreen Guerry developed through his knowledge and research. You see, Guerry is a lifetime member of the American Chemical Society. He is a chemical, mechanical, and materials science engineer and a chemist, possessing expertise related to chemical, mechanical, electrical, and medical products. 

He has combined this experience by assisting clients in pursuing intellectual property protection for over 25 years. He has direct experience in chemical processes, formulation chemistries, polymers and composites, service life prediction, and risk analysis, including risk reduction technologies. 

His passion involves developing of food-grade edible personal care products including sunscreen, food-grade edible alternatives to petroleum-based products like Vaseline® and Neosporin®, and antimicrobial/antibacterial chelated silver-zinc oxides which are both bioavailable and biocompatible.

He has directed and participated in audit and certification procedures regarding FDA, EPA, USDA, ISO-9000, ISO-14000/life cycle assessment compliance, and served as an expert witness in litigation proceedings, including medical devices. 

Guerry is a named inventor/co-inventor on over 100 US/PCT patents and pending patent applications.  

In this podcast, we cover: 

• How sunscreens are affecting users endocrine system
• What you should know about those SPF numbers like SPF 30, SPF 50, etc.
• Why you should never put anything on your skin that you wouldn’t put in your mouth
• What you should know about UVA and UVB radiation
• The multiple problems that come after you start “tanning” via tanning beds or the sun
• How UVC rays affect the body
• Why Guerry’s sunscreen products are superior in the market

“Getting a tan” needs to stay in the 1990s.

Guerry explains why tanning is not a cool thing to do anymore: once your skin starts to tan, the skin is overexposed to UV radiation. This is something each of us should consider: do you want wrinkled, leathery skin when you reach your seventies or eighties? Our skin is our largest organ, and like any organ in your body, you want to take care of it. 

Did you know that people in Scandinavian countries look down on Americans’ obsession with tanning? A tan is not considered healthy in Scandinavia. The people of Asia view tanning the same way. In Japan, the geisha girls do not get tans. That “porcelain” looking skin is what most other countries want – not a tan.

Guerry explains that this does not mean you shouldn’t have any UV exposure to get Vitamin D. Some of these countries that shun the sun experience vitamin D shortages. So we must strike a balance between overexposure and no exposure. Guerry shares how much sun each day is optimal for health. 

If you live to age 65 in the U.S., your chances of getting some form of skin cancer are 50%.

This is why you need to listen to this episode: everyone is wearing sunscreen, but the rate of skin cancer is still outrageously high! Why? Many factors are contributing to this, and Guerry covers them all in his conversation with Wade. 

When you look at the data on sunscreen lotion sales and the incidence of skin cancer, they appear to correlate. Something is not right about our light exposure, sunscreen products, and skin cancer rates. Guerry has done the research and done the testing to provide sunscreen products that protect you from UV radiation and don’t cause other health problems. 

Guerry has a Ph.D. in chemical engineering. He is someone that knows what he’s talking about when it comes to the ingredients in your sunscreen, what those ingredients do to the body—both positively and negatively — and what combination of healthy ingredients you can put together to form effective, beneficial protections against the sun’s damaging rays. 

Stay tuned as Guerry flips the script on sunscreens. Get ready to have the best summer of your life! 

Episode Resources:
3rdrockessentials.com – code : BIO20 link with 20% off
Duke Faculty Page
Guerry Grune LinkedIn
Guerry Grune Facebook
The Disappearing Male Documentary

Read The Episode Transcript:

Wade Lightheart: Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. It's Wade T Lightheart from BiOptimizers with another edition of the Awesome Health Podcast. And today we have got something really important to talk about. It's non-toxic personal care and we're talking about sunscreen. We're talking about the use of silver and UDI and food grade, only ingredients, particularly things that have no indoctrine disruptors, you know, it's for some people they like to be out in the sun. I love being able to sun I'm in Venice beach, California. And the thing is, is if you're putting stuff on your skin and you can't pronounce, or you don't know what it is, it's probably not that good for, in other words, the old school saying is if you can't eat it, don't put it on your skin. So fortunately, today we have an expert in providing healthy sunblock for you and a variety of other things.

 Wade Lightheart: In fact, our guest today is Guerry Grune and he is a chemical mechanical and material science engineer, a chemist possessing expertise related to chemical mechanical electrical and medical products. Think about that for a second. That's a mouthful. And what's interesting. He's, he's also a surfer spends a lot of time, you know, surfing the world, Hawaii Australia, Costa Rica, Japan, I've gone surfing. Let me tell ya. That's that's man's work. You get out. There are really serious women's work. I shouldn't be gender dominant, but man, I got the crap beat out of me at Mattamy. And it's really easy to burn to a crisp out there in the salt water, especially for a light. I like a guy, my, myself, but he's been at his, he got into this whole industry because as long-time surfing partner, you know, it only 22 film melanoma. And you know, the bottom lines is if you look at most sunscreens, most of them don't cut it.

 Wade Lightheart: And in fact, in 2001, the Institute of toxicology in Zurich, Switzerland published research, and this, this is what they said that look at all these things. Methoxy cinemate oxybenzone and benzo finan Fienen or phenone agents are commonly found in commercial sunscreens. And we're in fact, in doctrine disruptors chemicals that interfere with the body's delicate hormonal balance in short, the sunscreen that Guerry's friend was using and virtually everybody else are unsafe. So Guerry has developed a company that deals with this issues and provides a lot of services for people worried about their skin and a lot of other things. So Guerry, welcome to the podcast.

 Guerry Grune: Thanks for having me. Wade, I appreciate that.

 Wade Lightheart: Well, we were on the call beforehand and we could go down so many different rabbit holes because of your expertise, but let's just give a little bit, maybe a little bit expand on what we talked about, you know, it's, it's you love to surf you're out in the sun a lot. You're an active guy along with being like a, like a genius in multiple fields. What do you, Like what was it like when you discovered that the sun scans, the sunscreen that people are using actually sucks and is, is counter to health?

 Guerry Grune: That's a great question. That's a great question. I was pretty, I was pretty shocked, I guess, not completely shocked. It happened in 2001 that article that you mentioned from Margaret Schlump, she was a toxicologist in Zurich, Switzerland, and I'm a, I'm a lifetime member of the American chemical society. And it was a front page article on endocrine disruptors and E EMD, D O C R I N is endocrine disruptors. And those are female mimicking hormones. And I was like, what the heck is going on here? So read the article, contacted her directly, which in those days, internet was in its infancy. Email was still, you know, she sent me her full transcript by mail from Zurich. And she wrote lathered the back of female rats with these quote unquote endocrine disruptors to find out what they were doing and what happened was the female rats, a uterus grew abnormally large, and that's how she determined they were female mimicking hormones. The biggest female mimicking hormone on the planet is the pill it's in the air, it's in the water and it's a threat to not only males, but females on the planet as well, men and women because it's disrupting your hormonal imbalance. Right?

 Wade Lightheart: Great video on that called the Disappearing Male in the right. Exactly, exactly towns. And it's, it's changing the birth rates and average male today in, in, in the thirties is the testosterone level of a man in their seventies, in the 1970s.

 Guerry Grune: Yeah. And there's a big reason for that. It's not just the pill, that's in the air and the water, but it's also soy. Soy is got genistein in it and genistein is also a female mimicking hormone. And it doesn't matter if it's non GMO soy or, or GMO soy, it's still got genistein in it. And I was shocked to find out that, for example, the only animals that we we ingest most of the time that don't eat soy are cows. Cows can not digest soy, but pigs hogs chicken [inaudible] you know basic fish fish. If it's a fish farm fish, they're feeding it soy. Why? Because of cost, I was told by a guy who was a chicken farmer. He said, you know, if you don't know that much about chickens, they eat a lot. I said, okay. I said, why do you feed them soy?

 Guerry Grune: He said, a half a cent, a pound for chicken feed is a deciding factor on what they feed the chickens. Right? So, you know, soy is everywhere and the endocrine disruptors are everywhere. Five years earlier, I attended an environmental conference, international environmental conference at Harvard, a woman there, a toxicologist said she showed pictures of a morphogenic, insects or morbidity animals what's up [inaudible] male, female. They didn't have a sex. When, when you and I were growing up, I never heard the word trans. There were five and this was 1996. I was hearing, I was hearing. And you may have heard this too. It's a long time ago. Now there were fish in the Potomac that were male that were laying eggs, right? So yes, I was a little shocked by all this, but I also suspected there was something going on and being a surfer and having, you know, this close friend and another guy after that, that got melanoma in, in their early twenties.

 Guerry Grune: And didn't have a history of it in their family. I said, well, there's gotta be something we can do. So all that came together and I, I filed my first patent application on a non endocrine-disrupting cytoprotective immuno enhancing sunscreen. So that's a lot, wow. I get down, no female mimicking hormones, no toxic substances. And like you said, if you, if you know, if the ingredients you wouldn't put them in your mouth, don't put them on your skin. So the long answer to your question is I was suspecting that there was something going on and I figured there must be a way to really make something better and different. Also, I had just come back from Australia where all they talked about in those days was the ozone hole over the Australia is Right causing all kinds of damage, UV, UV, light damage, and the pollution of the waters.

 Guerry Grune: And, you know, Australia, you would think is a pristine place. It's not, it's not like New Zealand. And 80% of the people in Australia live on the coast and they're overexposed and they're getting those ozone hole on top of that. So I said, well, okay. And when I was in Australia, I realized they were using different sunscreens than we do in the US they were using mostly titanium dioxide, which is an inorganic active sunscreen. It's not an endocrine disruptor. It's not transparent. It's whitish. We don't like the whitest stuff. We'd like transparent stuff.

 Wade Lightheart: So that stuff on, and, you know, you look like you're, you're doing your Marcel Marceau you know, that whole white, white clown,

 Guerry Grune: Those are the clown, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty nice. That's right. Yeah. So basically what we've done and you'll appreciate this because the light, what the lifeguards put on their nose is pure zinc oxide.

 Guerry Grune: Correct. And but of course, nobody wants to put that on their face or their body. And also you can't because it doesn't spread. So without going into a lot of detail, yet we can go in as much as you want. But basically what we've done is taken what the lifeguards put on their nose and made it into a lotion. And you would think that was easy to do, but it was actually a very difficult process. And there was a reason for doing it that way, because zinc oxide is even better than titanium dioxide in terms of absorbance of UV rays. So you'd be raised there's UVA and there's UVB. It turns out that the FDA and their infinite wisdom. Yeah. I'm being a little sarcastic. The FDA says, well, you've got to worry about SPF, SPF, SPF, SPF. You know, I'm sure when you go out there and you're in the sun in Venice, you're, you're worried about, you know, having something that's SPF 30 or above.

 Wade Lightheart: Well, you hear this one the news, make sure that you've had SPF 30 or above today because of the UV index is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, or whatever.

 Guerry Grune: Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, Exactly. And so why, right. So what does SPF 30 mean? Well, it means that for you or for me, cause we're Caucasian. Probably, and we're pretty, light-skinned probably within about, let's just say to make it easy, 10 minutes in exposure to the sun, like you have been in Venice today with no clouds, you know, high exposure in 10 minutes, you're going to turn pink. You're going to adjust your skin's going to just start to get a little pink. Not, you're not going to get burned. You're just going to turn pink. Well, the 30 times the 10 is sun protection factor. 30 times 10 means supposedly that if you put an SPF 30 product on your body, you're going to have 300 minutes of protection from what, not from UVA, but only from UVB. And what's the difference? Well, UVB is the short penetrating rays that cause your skin to burn UVA will also cause some burning, but it's the deep penetrating rays that cause DNA damage, which leads to aging wrinkling.

 Guerry Grune: And if your immune system isn't working well, skin cancer, right? So UVA is the real culprit. UVB is really what tells your body what? So if you're starting to burn and you're in the sun and you don't have anything on your body and you live like caveman or, you know, before sunscreen was ever invented, which by the way, it used to be called tanning lotion. Right. Right, right. So, so, and of course we, it's a long story, but tanning, your hide is not what you want to do. So bottom line is when you're starting to burn, your inclination is to get the heck out of the sun, at least get into the shade. Right, right. Or at least get out of the, you know, direct sunlight. Well, think about this. If you're putting an SPF product, SPF 30, let's say, and you're protecting yourself from UVB rays and you're not burning.

 Guerry Grune: Then you're going to be exposed longer and longer and longer, which is okay, except what if it doesn't have any UVA protection. So that's what the whole full spectrum protection they talk about is about. But the FDA only requires, well now the FDA in 2011 was our last monograph. And the one before that was 1978. So they've only had two new monographs since 1978. Okay. And those monographs are about SPF. They're not about UVA. They're not about endocrine disruptors. They're not about toxic substances. They're just really catering to the large pharma companies that are making you SPF all the way up to a hundred at one time or more. Now they've regulated. They say, you can only have that SPF 50. Well, it's interesting. Some of the companies we're still, we're still touting as early as last summer, SPF 100, which is against FDA FDA requirements and the FDA rules. But, you know, I guess if you're, you know, name a company, if you're a big company, you don't, you know, you don't have to play by those rules, I guess. I don't know.

 Wade Lightheart: You know, we, we understand the influence. I believe it was identified by John Mackey in his book, Conscious Capitalism, what he called Crony Capitalism, where these players could influence political campaigns and get passes or regulations that support their industry and squeeze out competitors, which is not the original direction of capitalism. And so what people think is capitalism today, isn't it what it is in its essence, like, you know, wealth of nations kind of thing. So what we have is a, is a distorted version of that. That's not accurate. And these special interest groups and influences through government agencies, which dictate to the population and oftentimes bring stuff to research or market that isn't current with what current research is going to gain, because it goes through these long government bodies and then a new group gets elected and it gets pushed back installed and, and nothing gets done. And the consumer today has to take things by their own hands because you can guess that any policy coming out of the government, probably 10, 15, maybe 30 years behind the times, that'd be great, accurate?

 Guerry Grune: Absolutely. A hundred percent. And you know, you bring up John Mackey, who was the CEO of whole foods. It's now owned by Amazon. So, you know, we, we know for sure having dealt with Amazon because we do sell products on Amazon that, you know, they were, they were monopoly. That's very difficult to deal with. And FDA uses Amazon basically to do some things that they need to do to eliminate competition out there and regulate people in a lot of cases, unfortunately, out of business we we've dealt with it ourselves. So, you know, getting back to the SPF thing and exactly what you said, you know, we developed something that literally is 20 or 30 years ahead of its time. And we patented the heck out of it. Cause I do patent work for a living. Third Rock is a hobby. That's trying to be a business.

 Guerry Grune: But so we, we so getting back to the SPF thing. So if you're overexposed, which is where the whole sun thing comes from, it's not, you know, everybody says, well, what about vitamin D? You know, I don't want to stop vitamin D synthesis in my body because I've got sunscreen on. And by the way, the FDA doesn't allow you to call it sunblock anymore. And the name of my company is 3rd Rock Sunblock, but we call it 3rd Rock Sunblock Sunscreen. Right. Okay. So so it, it turns out that if you're overexposed to the sun, after 20 minutes, you've got all the vitamin D you want, if you've got pure daylight and you're out in the sun and you've got essentially shorts on and a t-shirt or nothing, you know, you're going to get all the vitamin D you need in 20 minutes, your, your body can only make that much.

 Guerry Grune: Right. So really wearing sunscreen is, is a big issue. If you're, if you're either a, you know, worried about aging and wrinkling women want to put it under their makeup, for example, and wear it all the time. When you're in the car, you're overexposed, especially in LA area where you're in the car and you're, you know, you, you wouldn't believe the magnification of the glass in your car and that how that actually hurts your skin and you get more UVA and UVB than you would if you were just outside,

 Wade Lightheart: Which is thinking about how hot your car seat gets for an example.

 Guerry Grune: Exactly. Exactly. So that's all from UV radiation, right? So, so again, the FDA sorta had it upside down, they say, well, we're gonna, we're gonna make it. We're gonna allow you to put products on your body.

 Guerry Grune: And they, they consider a sunscreen of drug by the way, it's OTC over the counter requirements. So you have to make an O. You have to make it in an OTC facility, which right away rules out about 80 to 90% of the manufacturing facilities in the United States or throughout the world. And so to meet those requirements, you have to, you have to have SPF testing, you have to have a microbial challenge. And you have to have something that proves that the product stays together, which is basically a shelf life testing. So, and doing all that alone is, is thousands of dollars. And, and then just just to have an FDA approved sunscreen, right? But the whole thing about UVB is overexposure to UVB means you're going to burn, definitely means you're going to burn. Right. And if I don't know about you, but I don't think I've ever put an SPF product on my body that gave me, you know, 300 minutes, 300 minutes is five hours of protection in the sun.

 Guerry Grune: You know, and I'm estimating low because I'm saying in 10 minutes, we turn pink. If it's 15 minutes, then you'd have 450 minutes from a protection from the sun before you start to turn pink. Well, if it never rubs off, you never go in the water and you never perspire, maybe that'll happen. But when I tell you the rest of the story, you say, there's no way, so UVA, however, it has nothing to do with UVA. So you might be getting protection from Burning for several hours, but the UVA rays might act not only might, but in most cases are going to cause damage to your skin, right? And you get this false sense of protection that you're not burning, but the next morning you might wake up sore because what UVA does is it causes chain scission, it basically destroys the cells, the skin cells. And that's why, you know, if you've ever had a real bad sunburn, you've worked, you woke up the next morning, you go, I'm sore all over. That's from UVA and that's over and that's overexposure to UVA. So you might not

 Wade Lightheart: Just a quick question that comes to mind too. Cause I would like to dive into this because I know there's probably a lot of people who might not live in Venice or not being in there in a Northern climate, but they use tanning beds. Yes. So I'd like for you to kind of segue into that as well.

 Guerry Grune: Yes. Well the leading dermatologist on the East coast, and I think he's probably the best, not only because he's a friend and colleague, but he's got like three laser skin, laser clinics and he's got three offices and his name is Dr. Bernstein. And he had a photo biology conference in 2005 at Temple University where he only invited the top-notch folks in the skincare industry. L'oreal vice-president of R and D the guy Curtis Cole, who used to be the director of all of the sunscreen for Neutrogena. And we had a little w you know, day and a half conference. I was the only one of the only non-medical people there. And so I had to watch what I said, but he talked about, they had everybody gave different cut talks. And one of the talks was about tanning, your hide. And that had to do specifically with, you know, the UV, the solar boots, where you go in and you get, you get your tanning thing,

 Wade Lightheart: UVA there's UVB, there's high pressure. There's like all that stuff. There's all these barriers.

 Guerry Grune: Yeah. Well, the, the, the, the, the, the bottom line is once your skin starts to tan you've been overexposed to UV, and there's no question. And so the question is, you know, what do you want to look like when you're in your seventies, eighties or nineties, do you wanna look like this old aged wrinkled person? Or do you want to look like your skin is still viable, right? Because your skin is your largest organ, and you want to take care of your skin. So overexposure to the skin, you know, and in the Scandinavian countries, they look down on us about having a tan, that's not considered health in, in Asia either. It's not considered health. I worked for the Japanese for 10 years. You know, the geisha girls, for example, they don't, they don't get tans, right. They have a white skin. So white skin, porcelain skin is highly valued in, in Asia. And, and in Scandinavia. Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't get UV exposure to get vitamin D and there are shortages of vitamin D in the, in Asia and in, in Scandinavia, so you know, you have to strike that balance, right? You don't want to be overexposed, but you also don't want to not have some light every day.

 Wade Lightheart: We call ourselves Bioptimizers. There's the maximum dosage as the minimum dosage, and then there's the optimal dosage. Absolutely. So we always want to strive for that.

 Guerry Grune: Absolutely. A hundred percent. Right. You know, it's a, it goes back to what our grandparents probably taught us, which is, you know, too much of a good thing, or too much of anything is not good. Right. Yeah. Um you don't, you know, you don't need a billion dollars to be happy and you don't need to be in direct sunlight for 200 hours to be healthy. So, right. So it's all those things. So so anyway, th this whole thing about SPF, UVA and UVB, what we do is we sort of break it down and we have a brochure on it. I can show you the chart, but basically what happens is you want to, you want a product that you put on your skin that will absorb in the entire spectrum of UV light, meaning UVB, UVA, and UVC UVC. It turns out UVB is about 280 to about 320 nanometers. That's the wavelength of the light. And then from about 320 to about 400 nanometers, that's where the UVA region is. And what you really want is you want something that absorbs and maybe reflects over that entire UVB, UVA rate range. And we

 Wade Lightheart: Talk about, UVC, because that's not something that you hear commonly, so what's UVC relevance in the body, or, or,

 Guerry Grune: But yeah, it's, it's a great question. And I, I honestly am not an authority on it. But UVC, not that I'm an authority on any of this, but, but UVC is, are also long penetrating rays. And this, the spectrum for those is above 400 nanometers. And then of course, you get into the IR range, you get into infrared range. And now, you know, some of these tanning boots, for example, they'll, they'll say, well, we don't use UVB or UVA we. We're, we're doing an IR. Well, you know, at the end of the day, radiation is radiation is radiation and how much damage it does to your skin depends on really just two things, you know, exposure, time and distance from the source. Now, the good news is we're 93 million miles away from the sun. Correct. So, so we don't have to worry about the distance, right. But we do have to worry about the source and artificial light you know, you can, and they do in the, in, in some of these light boots, they, they will distinguish, you know th they can, they can pick the spectrum of light that the bulb is going to burn at. And that way you can adjust you know, the source. And of course that's what these UV tanning light boots.

 Wade Lightheart: I think you're seeing that now where people adjust the intensity and things like that, they're getting the industry is starting to catch up to where the [inaudible] is.

 Guerry Grune: Yup. Yup, exactly. Right. A hundred percent correct. Yes. Yes. So, you know, getting back to sunscreen now, the other problem was on top of all this issue about endocrine disruptors, the endocrine disruptors were only for the substances that are what they call, believe it or not organic sunscreens, active sunscreen. So there's an active and an inactive portion of a sunscreen. Like there is a, for any cosmetic or any personal care product, there's something in it that might be active, like retinol to help you be wrinkle-free all those things. Right. but it's usually the base that you have to worry about. And the base for sunscreen is oil and water. Every sunscreen on the planet, except ours is oil based and water based 70% water and roughly 10 plus percent oils and waxes. And then the actives. So the actives can be these organic sunscreens, which are the female mimicking hormone and endocrine disrupting chemicals. They call them organic because they're carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. That's the only reason the organic has nothing to do with organic food or organic drinks, or, you know, organic beer or wine, or it has to do with the fact that it's just chem, it's just chemistry, chem, carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. So they're those sunscreen

 Wade Lightheart: Thank you For that distinction. I think that's really important. So, so that could be designated as organic, even though they may be organically activating estrogenic pathways inside your body.

 Guerry Grune: That is exactly correct. Right. Right.

 Wade Lightheart: Estrogen technically is an organic compound. Absolutely. What men manufacturer women, in fact manufacturing, and it varies from person to person YES but we're now that we're living in this highly technologically advanced world where there's a disproportionate amount of these estrogen like mimickers, which is generating these estrogenic pathways, which have major consequences on our health, our vitality replication to [inaudible] like everything,

 Guerry Grune: Everything, everything. So you're exactly right. And so organic is a, is a marketing term, which the USDA now has the USDA organic labels. They put on stuff, right. Or you, you have to buy basically. And of course they even do it for personal care. Now the bottom line is, yeah, organic sunscreens are only organic for that reason, carbon hydrogen oxygen. It turns out that zinc oxide and titanium dioxide are the only two inorganic sunscreen actives allowed by the FDA. Okay. Only two.

 Wade Lightheart: And when you say sunscreen, actives, can you say that when you're referring to zinc and titanium oxide,

 Guerry Grune: Right. Well, actives means that it's active in giving you sun protection factor. Okay. So, so all the organic sunscreens, as well as the zinc and the titanium oxides, those are all considered active ingredients by the FDA. Remember they consider this like a drug, right. So that's what they're interesting right there. Just in it's point. It is right. Yes. They're administering these drugs to your skin, which are actives. The endocrine disruptors are are clear. They're transparent. So when you put it on your skin, you don't see it. So, you know, that's why they have the spray that you can spray on, which we call my family wasn't well, me and then my daughters finally caught on, you know, I call it insecticide. Okay. Right. You're spraying alcohol and endocrine disruptors onto your skin. And it's transparent and it stops you from burning. So, you know, so is that any better than the mineral oil that women and our girlfriends used when we were in college, I would say, it's not better.

 Guerry Grune: It's worse. The mineral oil had an SPF value of about four and it would still allow you to burn. And it didn't have any UVA protection, but at least you weren't putting something on your skin that was literally a female mimicking hormone, which is being delivered directly to your bloodstream, which by the way, there's another story on that, that they, the Danes, they call them the crazy Danes. When they found out about this study, that Margaret Slump did, they took all the sunscreens off the shelf in Denmark. And so the EU said, wait a minute, you crazy page, you can't do that. So they put it all back on the, on the, on the shelves. However, they did a study to define, to determine what happens to these endocrine disruptors. When they're on your body, turns out they wind up in your blood urine and your blood plasma, excuse me, and your urine. Okay. So if you think you've put something on your skin, it doesn't show up in your body. I got word a news for years. Your skin is your biggest organ. It'll find up somewhere. Absolutely. And people don't think about this,

 Wade Lightheart: Have detoxify and plugging it up is not a good idea.

 Guerry Grune: That's a good idea. So it's, you're, you're I characterize your skin as a sponge. It works both ways. It absorbs. And it also wouldn't, you know, it gets rid of, as you say, toxins, right? And you want to get rid of that. And of course, think about this. So your skin, your biggest organ. Now you're putting the sunscreen on that's toxic and you're not going to perspire or, or things are not going to happen the way they're supposed to be. Cause what does endocrine-disrupting mean? It disrupts your endocrine system, which is part of how you get rid of the toxins that are in your body. So in the presence of the sun, which is the biggest free radical generator on this planet and free radicals are what causes aging and causes disease. You've got the sun coming on. You, you got this gunk on you.

 Guerry Grune: That's toxic, proven to be at least endocrine disruptors, right? And toxic substances that go together with the actives. And what's happening is your immune system is being depressed while you're being beaten down by these rays of the sun that are affecting your body. So I'm thinking to myself, no wonder we get skin cancer and no wonder the skin cancers in the, in the world are on the rise. They're not on the, they don't fall down. So what's wrong with that picture while everybody knows they're supposed to use sunscreen. So everybody's using sunscreen. You'd think that skin cancer would be going down and instead the rates are going up. If you live to be 65 in the United States, the chances of you getting some form of skin cancer is 50%.

 Wade Lightheart: You know, I remember looking at this a long time ago and I had made suggestions to people saying, look, if you look at the data in the, in the sales of sunscreen lotion and the incident of skin cancer, Jesus, it looks like something like they're, they're, they're like they, they track perfectly together. I got another question. Now what about information talking about the challenges of lighting that you might be exposed to? And, and I'm, I'm very sensitive to the types of lighting I use in the house, particularly the gas discharge lighting. I just can't be in a place that has it because it flashes at a different, can you talk about that? And maybe it's how it disrupts the skin or disrupts the body

 Guerry Grune: Well, in terms of disruption to the skin, again, you know, any radiation that you're overexposed to, or any radiation coming from either manmade light or the sunlight that you're overexposed to is going to cause eventually going to cause some skin damage, right? Because radiation is literally what it is. Even if it's not light radiation, it could be, it could be radiation from atomic radiation. It could be radiation, electrical, radio, EMI, RFI, radiation, but over time, overexposure will change the cellular structure of your skin. Now, as far as, you know, light, you know, like Dave Asprey got these glasses that he uses for indoor lighting and stuff, you know, again depending on, you know, how your brain functions, depending on how you normally operating, thank you. You and I both know, and I'm, I'm in natural lighting here right now, myself. You know, would you rather have natural light or would you rather have artificial light? And the answer is, I think in almost all cases, you'd rather have natural light because that's what the human body was conditioned to, you know, having

 Wade Lightheart: Billions of years of evolution and organisms to adapt to that. And these are relatively new technologies with unknown consequences down there. 100 percent. Then you have these whole tirades, I go on called the unintended consequences of technological innovation. Yeah.

 Guerry Grune: Yes. Unintended consequences of Thomas Edison.

 Wade Lightheart: Yes.

 Guerry Grune: Yeah. Yes, yes. I mean, brilliant guy wanted to make light available to everybody, Tesla too, but you know, the guys were geniuses, but, but the point is that that's all something that's very new to our bodies and you know, whether it's skin cancer or other cancers look at our food chain, look at our water systems. All of those things were intended. I think initially is a good thing. I don't think anybody was evilly planning on destroying the human race, but by doing all the things we have that are the modern conveniences that we have and being able to do all these other things that our ancestors couldn't do, there's some, you know, there's always the negative side. So getting back to your question about lighting indoors I think people, there are, everybody has a different immune system. Everybody has a different brain.

 Guerry Grune: Everybody has a different capability. They even did a study on twins and show. They don't even have identical immune systems, right? So the thing is what you can tolerate and what I can tolerate and what your family, my family and friends can tolerate are all different things. And whether or not the light is going to affect your ability to think, or your ability to, you know, stay healthy. All those things are going to depend on really how your body receives it and, and whether or not your body says that's healthy or not. And so I think that's a very I'm sure there's a lot of studies on, like there is on AMR, EMI and RFI. I know a lot about that and electromagnetic interference, radio-frequency interference, which we get from being on zoom have been on our cell phones. Right? all that.

 Guerry Grune: There's no question. Those are all radiate radiation, emitting devices. And there's no question that the radiation that's being emitted depending on how far away you are from the source and depending on the intensity and depending on the duration of the exposure are all going to have influences on how you think on how you breathe on how you receive it. And, you know, so I would say, ideally, you know, you, you want to be outside as much as you can. You want to be not overexposed, including sunlight, because, you know, unless you're in the Sahara desert of Africa and you were born and raised there, and there were generations of your family that were used to being, you know, having daily exposure to UV light for sunlight, you gotta, you need to be protected somehow, or you got to get out of the sun. And of course, if you serve, or if you run or anything you do outside sport activity and you do it for more than 30 or 40 minutes by definition, you're going to be overexposed. So the question is, how do you protect yourself from that? And I think sunscreen does work if it's the right sunscreen. And thank God

 Wade Lightheart: Let's talk, let's get into that. Can you, can you talk about your products in particular, why you developed them and then what makes them superior to other products that people are available? I mean, I just got a generous gift from you and it's so great. I really liked the products. And I actually sent some over to my mom because my mom is very sensitive to heat and light. Yep. And she slathers this garbage on her skin and God bless her. I love her dearly. And I'm like, okay, here, you need to get these. And I just sent to her, I just sent her some of your products over to her because I'm hoping, and I'm going to make her listen to this. So all my listeners and I have a good, when I have a good podcast like this, I actually tagged my mom. And I say, mom, you need to listen to this for you, mom. This is for you to listen, listen to Guerry. He's going to share with you exactly what products he makes and why you need to use these instead of that other junk you're getting at.

 Guerry Grune: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So unfortunately I'm looking for my brochure here or my sunscreen and I looked like I was stupid again, and I didn't bring my brochure, but I have a plot that shows that UV light versus absorption for everybody else's sunscreens and ours. And we always, as this top mean line, which covers the entire UV spectrum, meaning again, we've taken what the lifeguards put on their nose and we've made it into a lotion. So we've made two different products. One is this aroma therapeutic product, which is 3rd Rock sunblock, sunblock sunscreen, because the FDA requires it to be called sunscreen.

 Wade Lightheart: Right. It's called 3rd Rock Sunblocks and then this is 3rd Rock Sunblock, sunscreen.

 Guerry Grune: Yeah. Actually we evolved 3rd Rock sunblock incorporated. And we evolved to 3rd Rock Essentials cause we don't make just sunscreen anymore.

 Wade Lightheart: Right, exactly. So we'll get into some of that again. And so this, this is the full spectrum.

 Guerry Grune: Yes. Full spectrum. It says, and, and it really is it really? And we had make an unscented version too. So what, what's the difference? The aroma third therapeutic has Rosemary and frankincense.

 Wade Lightheart: I love those two scents. By the way, I love, I love the smell of it.

 Guerry Grune: You do so. So you're an unlike most guys who want an unscented version, but the why did we use Rosemary and frankincense? Because believe it or not, we had muscle tested with a chiropractor kinesiologist. Who's been my doctor since 1982. [inaudible] Wrote a book. That's almost a thousand pages long. And our sunscreens finished actually featured in his book. And he has clients from all over the world.

 Wade Lightheart: What's, what's your, what's your chiropractor's name?

 Guerry Grune: But his last name is Schmitt. S H M I T T.

 Wade Lightheart: We're big. We're really big into using kinesiology. In fact, a friend of mine just down the road, studied under Sheldon Deal and then Dr. David Hawkins and his whole map of consciousness. And then of course my chiropractor he introduced us, Dr. Steven Reed introduced me to this process and it seems, it seems really far out. But then when he starts telling you what you ate for dinner two days ago through his testing, you're like, Oh, okay, well maybe there's something above this. Right You know? So it's a wonderful way to get to with a high level practitioner Absolutely actually determine what's effective for you. So you've got the Rosemary and frankincense,

 Guerry Grune: Roseanne and frankincense, just so you know, doctor Dr. Wally Schmitt is the brother who everybody knows internationally known. Dr. John Schmitt is, is my guy. And they live in chapel Hill and Raleigh, North Carolina, which is where I used to live. And that's how we met. And so he muscle tested those 2 cents on over a hundred people and everybody tested positive. So if anybody doesn't know what muscle testing in that's in your podcast, what happens is it's a neural logical neurophysiological response. There's a reason why your nose and your mouth are this close to your brain. And because your brain wants to know quickly, if there's something out that that might kill you, right? And if you get something toxic, whether it be food, whether it be gas, whether it be liquid and it's toxic and your nose and your mouth find out about it, your brain is going to know instantaneously, essentially that it's not good for you. And you're going to get away from it.

 Wade Lightheart: Dr. David Hawkins talks about how he feels that this whole response mechanism is the foundation of nervous systems because all single cell organisms require an external source of food. And if you put any single cell or organism by mercury, it will instantly recoil from it. And that is this food, or is this good supporting life or not supporting life ultimately evolved into the nervous system and developed our brains over millions of years of evolution bias. Look, just organisms looking for a source of energy. Is this going to kill me? Or is this going to support me right? As a highly complex multi-celled organism, we can take a certain amount of toxins. We were built to adapt to a certain amount of damage, but our or our body actually knows. And Dr. John Diamond wrote a book, the body doesn't lie.

 Guerry Grune: Yes. I know that book.

 Wade Lightheart: Great way to kind of get an introduction into the concept of this. And of course it's expanded rapidly and used by holistic practitioners around the world. It's not woo-hoo, it is a definable and effective way to quickly discern. What's good for you. And what's not. So that's really fascinating. I didn't know that about frankincense and Rosemary that's beautiful.

 Guerry Grune: No, neither did I. And, and to give it and to bring this completely full cycle, Dr. Schmitt, John also did muscle testing for every single one of the components that I did that I'd put in the sunscreen. Initially, I was naive. I wrote a patent. I didn't know how to make sunscreen. I got the old school chemist to put stuff together. I said, no, you can't use this. You can't use this. You can't use this. They gave up because they didn't know how to make the product. I took every one of the individual components from standard sunscreens and had him muscle tested. Then I went to his number one, patient number one, first time patient. He ever had Dr. George Clark, who lives in Durham and is not associated with Duke, but figured out how to determine endocrine-disrupting without using animals. They took my sunscreen and the comparative to all the other sunscreens. And we published in the journal of toxicology in 2005, to prove that my sunscreen is the only non endocrine-disrupting sunscreen on the planet.

 Wade Lightheart: Wow. That's amazing. Did you hear that folks were talking about the only, the only sunscreen that doesn't interrupt your endocrine system? That is, that's a, that's a, that's a real, as they say, and they say in marketing a big USP, like no one else is doing this. And you've been able to prove this is, this is Epic. And that's why we're highly suggesting you get access to it. Tell us more.

 Guerry Grune: So, yeah. So, so, so we should, we should preface that with the word proven. Cause we're the only ones who've ever tested to determine if it's endocrine-disrupting or not the sunscreen formulation, because remember sunscreen formulation has at least five, 10, 15, 20, 30 components in it. So they all have to be non endocrine-disrupting not just

 Wade Lightheart: Like sodium, what the heck, innate,

 Guerry Grune: You got it. Got it. You got it. You got it. Yes. So the preservatives, which is sodium, what the heck innate, right? Or, or potassium, what the heck innate all of those can potentially be toxins and potentially be endocrine disruptors. So how did he determine endocrine disruption? You, you won't, this is an amazing thing. So he figured out that luciferase, which is an enzyme that fire fireflies or lightning bugs, depending where you grew up, when they light up, they use those luciferase. It it's, it's the luminescence enzyme. And he took that and made a bioassay out of it to determine whether something was endocrine disrupting or not down to 10 to the minus 16th power. So

 Wade Lightheart: You actually start to glow. Then if he goes how'd that work, if it was that.

 Guerry Grune: Yeah. And what happens is he measures the loss of light intensity, right. Measure the loss of light intensity. And when something loses the light at 10 to the minus 15th power, it's still an endocrine disruptor, or it's still toxic. What does that mean? It's killing cells. The cells are dying. So with my sunscreen, we were able to develop a product where the cells don't die. Why that's really important because you're trying to confuse skin cells healthy. But yet you're a lot of the sunscreens, 90% of them out there, you put it on your skin and you're you're killing skin cells, which means that you're regenerating new cells, which are going to be more susceptible to UV light than the old cells that are still healthy. Right. Because right. I mean, there's all this stuff going on. Right. And it, it there's many layers to it.

 Guerry Grune: So it turns out that all the emulsifiers, all the Amalia ones, everything, but the oil and water that goes into the sunscreen products, this being our number one, aroma therapeutic one, we call it aroma therapeutic because the Rosemary and frankincense is not perfume. Right? It's an essential set of essential oils that literally when you breathe, it, it causes your immune system to strengthen immuno enhancing. Right. Which is what you want. You want body armor, you you're out there in the sun. You need something to protect you. That's what we made now. The unscented version is identical, except it doesn't have the Rosemary and the frankincense in it. So is it as effective? Probably not. But the people like it, we, we sell more of the incentive than we do with the aroma therapeutic. Right. That it is what it is. Right. Because people want to coconut oil, because that's where that goes back to what your parents and grandparents use, which was tanning lotion.

 Wade Lightheart: Right, right, right.

 Guerry Grune: Right. And I'm in Florida right now where that's, you know, you want to smell like you're on the beach. You want to smell, you want to have the beach smell which everybody associates with coconut oil because of Palm trees. But anyway, that's a long story. So getting back to our sunscreen, what did we really do? So there's a couple of things. We made it all food grade and Gregg edible ingredients, because those are the only things I could find that were non-toxic and not endocrine-disrupting. And so we use beeswax and olive oil and orange wax. And of course it's not vegan because we bee these wax. So that's another story. But we are Leaping Bunny approved. So the vegan bees, we only,

 Wade Lightheart: We are our survival of the whole species of every organism on the planet. It's only dependent on bees. So

 Guerry Grune: Yeah. I have the, I had the discussion with the vegans and I said, well, wait a minute, it's just a byproduct of the bee. They said, no, no, if you're a true vegan, you cannot be, don't get me started on. I know, I know we'll go off on a tangent. But so we are leaping bunny approved that took us 18 months. Leaping Bunny approved means they really know that it's not toxic substances and you have to go all the way back to the source. So our bees wax is high mountain desert bees, wax, why it's not synthetic bees wax. That's a big issue. Most people use synthetic beeswax and it turns out the high mountain desert bees wax the bees have a higher SPF value in their whack.

 Wade Lightheart: I was going to say that The level they'll probably have already adapted to mountain environments, Dr. Rowley, who wrote a book on, on solar treatment, exposing people to different frequencies would take people up to different levels of the mountain to get different UV lights that would activate recovery mechanisms inside the body by timed exposure to certain frequencies of light. So just getting, he was really deep into the optimal dosage. And of course, bees figured that by probably millions and millions of years ago before human.

 Guerry Grune: Yes, yes, yes. And the, and it's unbelievable. This one source of beeswax, we have you put it in your room where they, they sell it to us in blocks of one and two pounds and you put it in your room and your entire room is, is, smells like you're in a, you're like you're in a nursery with flowers. Wow. It's just the floral fragrance of this stuff is unmatched. Wow. Unmatched. So that's in our product and addition, we chelate the zinc oxide. So now that's a whole big discussion, right. So why do we do that? So it turns out that in addition to the fact that we use only zinc oxide, and I was the first person on the planet to use Just, zinc oxide for sunscreen and patented it. And then Burt's Bees hired me and fired me the same year that they sold out the Clorox.

 Guerry Grune: Okay. Which was in 2000 and 2000, 2005. And they sold the Clorox for $987 million. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. 2007 just before the crisis. Right. I started working with them in 2005 and by 2007, they said, we don't need you anymore. We're selling out the Clorox. But anyway so it turns out that zinc oxide, what happens with zinc oxide is when you put it in water, it turns into something called zinc hydroxide, which is a salt. And as I said, all sunscreens on the planet, except ours are 70% plus water. Why? Because water is free. Right? So when you put sunscreen, anybody else's sunscreen on your, on your skin, you're putting 70% water on your skin. What happens when you put 70% water on your skin? What happens to the water? It just, it just evaporates, right?

 Wade Lightheart: You're really, Basically the information they're going is at best is going to be 30% of what they say. And then you might have areas of, of, of total exposure because you didn't cover that area properly. Is that what you're saying? Is that what

 Guerry Grune: That happens? And you get pinholes and you get evaporation. And so our product is made with 70% glycerin.

 Wade Lightheart: Right. And glycerin has some very unique properties as well in how it re partitions a water inside the body.

 Guerry Grune: Yes. Yeah. So we have a little card in our package that says about how to put, how to put the product on. Right. And unfortunately, 95% of the people put this product on, like they put all other sunscreens on, but this is like real cream because we're old enough to know, remember brokery, probe, a little, a little dabble, do you? Right.

 Wade Lightheart: Little dabble do you? That's still Great. A little dabble. I will do it because you know, it's such a common speak where I grew up, well, just put a little dabble will do ya. Right. It don't know that that came from Brylcreem and what an amazing marketing,

 Guerry Grune: What an amazing, I mean, everybody in the United States grew up with Brylcreem. Right. That was old enough to know. Right. And there was just one marketing slogan that everybody knew and everybody used it. All men use that about women. It was, it was, it was basically to make men, have their hair look good. Right. So I just put this much on, right. There's hardly any right. And if I spread that that's enough for my entire hand and wrist for the day and it does, and it does go away and it goes right in, it leaves a little bit of a white sheen after you come out of the water, which means you're protected, still means it's still on. It's still on. Yes. Yes. And I've been surfing sometimes for an hour and a half, two hours and I'll come out and I still have that sheen on me, which is, you know, not a white bozo look, it does take longer to go in.

 Guerry Grune: And if you put as much on as most women and men put on, if it's a, for regular sunscreen, you are going to start look like bozo the clown, because, but it'll also again, because it's glycerin based, right? So glycerin is halfway between oil and water glycerin. Doesn't require an emulsifier to keep it together, oil and water do, right. So if you take oil in the water and put a good emulsifier in, you'll keep it together. So think about salad dressing at the grocery store, you got oil and vinegar. They don't mix. Everybody knows that. How do they keep it together? They keep it together with an emulsifier. Emulsifier is usually toxic, but when it's food grade edible emulsifier, hopefully it's not a toxic. And what happens is I guarantee you, if you go to the shelf next time, and you look at the salad dressings, the one that has the most sodium and potassium salts in them has separated completely. And you shake

 Wade Lightheart: Absolutely. And my mom used to make salad dressing. And before you put the salad dressing on, you gotta shake it up Yep Yep because it's going to separate. Yep

 Guerry Grune: Yeah, exactly, exactly. And so it doesn't matter how good the emulsifier is. If you've got too much salt, well guess what? Zinc hydroxides is a salt too. And when you add zinc hydroxide to water, it turns into zinc hydroxide, unless, and God only knows how I figured this out, unless the pH is either above nine and a half or below three.

 Wade Lightheart: Fascinating that you say that because I actually have electrolysis water machine that I can crank up to 11.5 to a malt in my wash, my vegetables, because it will emulsify the oil-based pesticides that are even on a recoat 25, 50% of your organics. Cause USDA allows 50 different chemicals, right. On organic food. Right. Plus it might've been on a truck with a bunch of other things who knows. And it's it's, it's frightening to see the goop coming off your, or quote unquote organic food. Yes. it's interesting how pH and emulsification work together. So it's cool that you've figured all that sort of stuff out. So you can mix these things if you can play with pH

 Guerry Grune: Right. And turns out we chelate the zinc oxide. So it's no longer zinc oxide really it's chelate with L-arginine, which is an amino acid, which is vital for a lot of things that men do, including forming nitric oxide. Correct? Right. Yeah. So L-arginine takes the pH up to above nine and a half. Now what happens is people say, wait a minute, nine and a half pH, that's going to be very caustic. No, actually it's not caustic at all. If you buy a, if you buy a Draino it's caustic, right? So that's sodium hydroxide, but zinc, hydraulics, zinc oxide that has a pH of nine and a half stays zinc oxide. It's not becomes zinc hydroxide in water. And what happens is by keeping it zinc oxide, we keep the UVA UVB spectrum completely intact so that it absorbs over the entire spectrum all the way, just like the stuff the lifeguards put on their nose, that's pure zinc oxide.

 Guerry Grune: So to make a lotion that is identical to what the lifeguards put on their nose, if you can't chelate the zinc oxide and keep the pH above a certain number, you're not going to keep it as zinc oxide. It's going to be zinc hydroxide. And why is that important? Not only do you not get the same UVA absorption anymore, but also what happens is it causes your emotion, which is what the sunscreens are. There an emotion. It causes the emotion to fall apart over time. And the FDA requires that you do accelerated testing to determine shelf life while it turns out with our product, when you heat it to 40 degrees C in an oven, which is the test for two weeks, you get one shelf life year. And with our product, not only does it not fall apart, it gets better because the glycerin gets heated up and mixes even better.

 Wade Lightheart: Right? Oh, that's, that's beautiful. That's that's, that's see. Now that's the beauty of really understanding chemistry from an internal operational perspective, as opposed to some external regulatory components that may have good intentions or not, or other influences. So I want to be mindful of everyone's time. This is so great. Where do people get this PR these products? Like, I think that anybody that's listened to this podcast right now, they're like, Wade, just get, get them, get me the products summer's coming. I got to take care of my kids. How do I use this? Where do I get this? How do I get access to you? Ship worldwide? Can I get this product now? Tell us all about it. Where do you get? Where can we order?

 Guerry Grune: Yeah, definitely. You definitely could get it. You definitely could get it. It's the name of the company online is 3rd Rock essential. So 3 RD, the number three 3rd, 3rdRockessentially.com. And we make a lot of other products too, that we haven't talked about yet. But 3rdRockessentials.com our website. Unfortunately we have to, we have to sell on Amazon as well, so you can get it on Amazon and you can get it on our website. There's a, it's an, a few doctor's offices. It's in a few stores around the country. We do ship overseas. In fact, we have a big, we have a big following in Australia where they're overexposed because of ozone and they all live on the coast and there are very outdoorsy people, the Australians. So so yeah, and you can get it. And we charge, we charged 24.95 for four, three and a half ounce, 3.4 ounce unit, which is in this toddle in the box. And if you open up the box, you get our story and you get directions for applying it. You get the story as to why we made this in the first place, and you'll understand some of the science. And if you want a lot of information, our website's pretty educational.

 Wade Lightheart: And by the way, folks, if you go to bioptimizers.com/3rdRockessentials, you put in bio20, you're going to get 20% off. It's very generous of you to do that. And here's something I want to, for our listeners to we, we always encourage for you to buy directly from the manufacturer. If it, if possible, we're really big into supporting individuals like Guerry, who is providing great products that are often subjected to unfair marketing squeeze plays, I should say, or don't have the economic resources to kind of go through the algorithms that many of the big sun plan company, sun, sun, chemical companies, I would say I would call them sun chemical companies, right? And so education is power, but always reward this, get the information, go on there, check out his Instagram there at www.Instagram, 3rdrockessentials. If you're onto that they're also on twitter.com 3rdrocksunblock.

 Wade Lightheart: These are really important things for you and your family to share. We all want to protect ourselves or the sun. And what really sucks is that so many well-intentioned people are spending all this money and giving away their health, their vitality, not just themselves, but their grandparents, their children, because they don't know that what they're buying is actually counterproductive to what they're trying to get. And you've changed the game with this. Guerry, this is amazing. Any final words before we wrap this up, we're going to get you back because there's some other things I want to talk about. We got into early, but we got to run up the show. So can you any, any, any components you want to add to our listeners?

 Guerry Grune: I, I would just say, as far as sun protection is concerned, you know, be, be wary of what you buy. There are other good products out there, but you're not going to find anything quite like ours. And it's, again, anything you find on third rock essentials. We say, if you wouldn't put it in your mouth, why would you put it on your skin? Why on earth would you put on your skin? So read your, read the labels, understand the ingredients, right? Figure out whether or not that stuff that's in. There is something that you really would want to swallow or have your kids swallow. And I think we had talked about earlier that the Danish study about the stuff winding up in the urine and the blood plasma. Well, that the conclusion of that study was it might not be that bad for adults, but we think it might possibly be an issue for infants and small children whose immune systems aren't fully complete yet. And I'm like, yeah,

 Wade Lightheart: Not to mention the unborn. Yes, exactly. The born fetuses embryos, these types of things, which might be supposed to 10,000 to a hundred thousand times, the amount of estrogenic chemicals, the normal, which interrupt and their development. So a checkout, the disappearing male, it's a great documentary, but more importantly, I would like you to go to bioptimizers.com/3rdRockessentials. Even if you just go to his Facebook page, but we're going to save you 20 with the bio20 link. That's awesome. Just for listening, we don't take any money for it or anything else like that. That's just, just, we just want to expose this information to our crowd because your health is important to us at BiOptimizers. We don't make sunblock, we don't make sunscreen. We don't do those things, but we do bring you the information that will transform your life and make you a little bit healthier and let you live a little bit longer and a little bit stronger. Guerry, thank you so much for joining us today on

 Guerry Grune: That was a pleasure.

 Wade Lightheart: I learned so much and you're so thorough and you understand this on such a deep level and you made a great product. I can't wait to get you back. We're going to talk about some silver [inaudible] and is in some of the confusion. And of course, some of the suppression of the benefits of silver, both you and I use silver quite regularly as something that we use to support our immune systems in the world that we live in.

 Guerry Grune: Thanks. Yeah. Well, if you're, if your folks go online, they'll see we have 30 other products. So the sunscreen is where we started, but we've expanded tremendously. And so, yeah, I look forward to the next discussion for sure.

 Wade Lightheart: And there you have it. Bioptimizers.Com/3rdrockessentials with bio 20. Save 20%. Thank you so much for joining us today. Everyone on the awesome health show, I hope you enjoyed this. I hope you go and check out Guerry's company buy yourself, that sun, sun block sunscreen slash sunblocks on the screen, get it, put it on your family. Use it. You'll see the difference. You'll feel the difference and you'll know that you're doing something that's good for you and good for the planet. And of course good for your life. Thank you so much for joining us today. We'll see you on the next episode. I'm Wade T Lightheart from BiOptimizers have an awesome day. Thank you.