128: Healing and Spiritual Growth Through Psychedelics, Float Tanks & NLP – with Sean McCormick

Sean helps people boost their energy so they can make positive changes in their life.

His methods for helping people reach their optimal performance levels are multi-faceted. 

As a biohacker and natural health enthusiast, Sean has in-depth knowledge in supplementation, diet, and exercise. 

Sean also owns a chain of float centers, which are places that offer isolation tanks (a.k.a. flotation tanks). Float therapy is a powerful method for improving the way you feel and function, regardless of age. Sean explains the benefits of using a float tank for your health in this fantastic conversation with Wade. 

Sean is also a Certified Life Coach and Performance Coach whose clients include professional athletes, television actors, MLS professionals, and the Luluemon corporate team. His credentials equip Sean to coach you through mindset challenges effectively.  

Another tool in Sean’s biohacking toolbox is psychedelics. This podcast episode spends a significant portion of time on this topic, providing a great learning opportunity for listeners who are curious about leveraging psychedelics as a personal growth tool. Although controversial, using psychedelics can provide many health benefits, particularly on a mental and spiritual level, when done under proper guidance with an experienced shaman or practitioner who has your best interest in mind.  Wade asks all the right questions, and Sean is gracious with his time providing in-depth answers that dive into all facets of psychedelics, including spirituality. 

In this podcast, we cover:

• The daily routines and practices Sean uses to stay positive and at peace during the pandemic
• Why Sean broke into the flotation therapy business and the benefits his customers get from this still novel health practice
• Why you should do dopamine fasts and how to do them
• The dangers of diving into psychedelics unprepared and not taking them seriously
• Sean’s experiences with ayahuasca and how this psychedelic helps people heal, experience personal growth, and expand consciousness
• What good is a spiritual awakening if you don’t do anything with it?
• How social media addictions steal the benefits of our dopamine and shift those benefits to “someone else” (like Mark Zuckerberg or Jack Dorsey)
• How people working in the digital space can still benefit from a “media fast” 
• A powerful NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) technique that rewires your brain from a nonproductive emotional state to a productive emotional state

Energy is the Key to Making Positive Changes that Last

It would help if you had the energy to make lasting impactful changes in your life. Yet, so many are struggling with low energy. This pandemic of lethargy has a lot to do with our modern technological society. Many people are bombarded with digital stimuli and don’t know how to get off that train. Sean talks about some of these positive changes you can make to increase your energy flow. 

Things like making some changes in your environment. Are you sleeping with your Wi-Fi on? Do you keep your phone close to your head? When you wake up, is the first thing you do is look at your phone? No wonder you’re getting crappy sleep. 

You should establish a quality morning routine to start your day strong. Sean spends time talking about practical things you can do to stoke your creative fires without caffeine dependence.  

How do you make sure your ayahuasca retreat provides lasting change – not just a short “experience”?

As Sean and Wade discuss the right mindset in using psychedelics for healing and growth, at one point, the discussion turns to what do you do after coming back from an ayahuasca retreat in Costa Rica? Because the same habits, vices, and people are waiting for you when you return home. Here is a snippet of what Sean says in this episode:

“The work up to and the work on the backside of experiences is everything because your friends are still at home, your family, your habits. When you left to go do this experience (ayahuasca), seeking greater awareness and clarity, maybe healing – all your same vices, the same habits, and negative thought patterns and trigger points are all there waiting for you. 

So unless you have somebody that you can work with to help navigate all that, you must have enough resolve in yourself to say, okay, I’m going to make some behavioral changes. I’m going to give up sugar. I’m going not watch so much media anymore. I’m going to be kinder to my children.

Those sorts of changes are like a baseline. You can also start meditating or begin journaling and then build off of that “big experience.” 

Like, what good is a spiritual awakening if you don’t do anything with it, right?”  

Sean McCormick was introduced to transcendental meditation when he was 12 years old, bringing this podcast one of the most spiritual conversations Wade has ever recorded. Achieving levels of expertise in some of the most cutting-edge biohacking techniques out there today, you don’t want to miss what Sean has to share. 

Check out this episode – healing and spiritual growth could be right around the corner. 

Episode Resources: 

https://www.instagram.com/floatseattle/
https://www.youtube.com/channel
https://www.linkedin.com/in/sean-mccormick-47a3b49/

Read The Episode Transcript:

Wade Lightheart: Good morning, good afternoon, and good evening. It's Wade Lightheart from 'BiOptimizers' with another edition of the Awesome Health Podcast. And today, we are getting into bio-hacking, dopamine fasting (not feasting), which most of us are hooked on, NLP techniques and psychedelics; all topics you know that I love, and I know you love them too. And today, we have a special guest. His name is Sean McCormick, and he is the host of the Optimal Performance podcast and the founder of the West coast highest rated float center change 'Float Seattle.' Sean is a certified life coach and performance coach, working with professional athletes, television actors, and organizations like MLS Soccer and Lululemon. Sean is trained in several spiritual modalities and has been in the psychedelic space for over 15 years. I think, life is kind of a psychedelic space. He's a bio-hacker, natural health and fitness, and advocate for health freedoms and boy-boy. Everybody I know, that's in the bio-hacking and health freedom, and like really into this thing is going, 'What the F is going on right now?' Because it seems like we are completely under siege in the health community. And yet, there is this whole, like, what used to be sort of underground, which is kind of emerging mainstream, which is the use of psychedelics, spirituality, NLP, and techniques for rapid transformation. Because if you're not rapidly transforming right now, good luck of surviving or thriving in the next few years. Sean, welcome to the show.

 Sean McCormick: Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. What an intro! Man, your energy is so contagious, man. I love it that way. I'm so excited for this. Let's do it.

 Wade Lightheart: I was just listening to CC and Daryl Hall I think, playing on it, like, you know, their thing, you know, where it's like the throwback Fridays and I was here, dancing here, bile home. I'm all bile-hacked up here today, locked and loaded. And despite all the chaos here in Venice beach, California, and the insanity of the public, and that's what, let's just call it what it is. It's insanity, right? Let's just not go to church; let's not go to gyms; let's close down restaurants and health food stores, and keep open fast food places,drug outlets, alcohol outlets, and lock everybody up with this continuous broadcast. And if we don't agree with you, we're just going to cancel you off the world. Like, what the hell is going on, brother? What are you saying, man?

 Sean McCormick: There's this massive opportunity in history right now, for us, as a globe, and as a civilization, as humanity, to really emphasize health and wellness. I mean, regardless of what you think is going on, where this virus was created, if you believe in virology, if you believe that we can catch things or if you believe in terrain theory, that doesn't matter. What matters is that we have this golden opportunity in this time, in the world, to really change the narrative, to change the way that we think about our own health. And we are getting an F. The leadership, all of the three letter organizations that are supposed to be there to support us, to help us, to give us good ideas, to give us solutions, are failing, failing, failing; and it's really sad because for people like you and I, and the people listening to this very episode right here right now, are interested in optimizing ourselves in being the best that we can be, the healthiest, the sexiest, the most energy; and all of that is under threat right now. I mean, from every single angle, just like you said, we can't go to the beach; and I know that it's shifted and changed, and people have been pulled off beaches and they've made some adjustments, but this notion that we are unhealthy, as a baseline idea, that we need to be injected with something in order to go live our lives. I mean, it doesn't get more dystopian than where we're at. And for me, it's my opinion that it emphasizes even more the importance for each of us to take our health into our own hands. We got to get our gut right; we got to get our sleep right; we got to get our relationships right; we've got to move. You know, the acronym of AWESOME covers all of that stuff. Andwhat is not, there's no V in awesome. There's no Q in awesome. It's really stunning to me, and we talked a little bit about this when you were on the optimal performance podcast is the fact that this level of narrative that the people who are advocating for natural health, which is now a bad word, alternative health, holistic health, integrative health, now are things that are just being totally wiped off of the internet. And it's harder and harder to find reliable resources, it's harder and harder to find a reliable solutions. And so that's why, podcasts like these are so important; is to share wisdom, to share information so that people can take their health into their own hands. I mean, I could go all day on the bummer that we're looking at, but I want to keep it optimistic because this, like you said, this is an opportunity for each of us; this is a waking up moment. And the data keeps showing. Like if you are metabolically inflexible, you're going to be in some trouble. If you have three or four comorbidities, you're going to be in some trouble. If you're carrying around a bunch of extra weight, you're going to be in trouble. So what can we do? Well, we can make sure that we're eating the right things, and moving around, and optimizing ourselves because a couple of years from now, I think that there is going to be a major disparity between the people who decided to make some health changes during this wacky time and the people who sat back and ate crappy processed foods, and stayed glued to screens, and gained the COVID-19 in LBs and are living their life, waiting for someone to come, help them and save them and make them healthy. And the fact is, the government can't make you healthy. They just can't. So yeah, there is a revolution; there is a health revolution going on and it's happening through conversations like this.

 Wade Lightheart: Really well said. And I think all of us, kind of, ride the information roller coaster, where we can get really… At some points, it becomes so overwhelming and like it feels like we're going into the Mines of Moria or something, and in the Balrog is ready to take us out. And then on the other levels, it feels like we're marching victoriously to a new age of super optimized humans, if you will.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: You touched on something, I think, that is real important. I mean, the research just came in; the average weight gain over COVID pandemic… And here's the thing. There's COVID, and we're not denying that there's this crazy virus out there that's causing very big problems with certain segments of the population; we're not saying that. But when you look at, well, what are the comorbidities? Obesity, diabetes, heart conditions lack of exercise, low vitamin D levels, right? Like, okay. Well, let's just break this thing down. So, we have a pandemic. Fair enough. Forget all the politicization. Okay, let's just, how are we dealing this as a human that wants to give our stack the deck in our favor? Well, taking people out of sunlight, taking them people at a social communications, only reducing access to fitness centers and to health, food places and an over-reliance on pre-packaged foods, I would say, because you're getting it delivered and all those sort of stuff, and then bombarding them daily with the latest negative news and keeping them out of sunlight and out of love and compassionate and empathetic situations. I mean, it seems to me that we've, have we just exposed the agencies for what they are? And have we gotten addicted to big Poppa mentality? And that means that, 'Hey, I need to be safe because Big Poppa is going to save me. And anybody who says that Big Poppa isn't going to take care of us, is a threat.' Would you say that's, like, how do people get out of this thinking?

 Sean McCormick: Well, that's an important question to ask, is how can we get out of this? And the way out of it is, the path is the solution; and the path is to take your health into your own hands. It is to not rely on the MyPlate, a suggestion for dietary consumption; the governmental suggestion for how to eat, right?

 Wade Lightheart: Right. I mean, it has no basis in any biological sensibility.

 Sean McCormick: No, no.

 Wade Lightheart: So, it's totally special interest groups which have infiltrates food pyramid and all this sort of stuff. And it's like, now we have guys like Mr. Microsoft, who's now the largest farm owner in the world, and then recently just come out and thought we should dim the sun.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: His latest statement. This is a solar system.

 Sean McCormick: It seriously, It's like bizarre world, up is down, down is up, in is out, light is dark. It is the way through this is through massive action. And the, in order to get to that place in your life, where you're ready to take some massive action to protect your sleep, to make sure that you're reducing your stress levels, to even get into the frame of mind that, okay, I can control my own health. I can control the way that I eat, the way that I sleep, how much time I'm getting outside, that is the way through. But even before people get to that, but even before they, that light switches where they say, Hey, this doesn't seem to make sense. This doesn't pass the sniff test anymore. There's all these wacky ideas for what health is according to you know, elected and on elected officials. Like the person mentioned. And for me, it's about the E an awesome. It's about energy. Wait, the E is the…

 Wade Lightheart: Education testing and coaching etc.

 Sean McCormick: Well, maybe we should add energy to the end. Maybe…

 Wade Lightheart: That's the result.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. Right. We have to have enough energy to make the move to make some changes. You know, I was talking with Paul Check a little while ago.

 Wade Lightheart: Paul, he's an amazing guy.

 Sean McCormick: Incredible. I mean, he'd speaks in quotes, just coming out from, from inside of him. And he said, just people don't have the energy. They just don't have the energy to start a garden. They don't have the energy to think really for themselves.

 Wade Lightheart: You're brilliant. Yes.

 Sean McCormick: Right. We're being constantly bombarded by things that don't make sense. And yet we continue to acquiesce to it. We continue to just to go along with the flow. So for me energy so that you can actually make some positive changes in your life has everything. And it's my goal and yours as well, I know is to boost people's ability to generate the energy that they need to make positive changes in their life. If you are a, you know, a lot of people are working from home. If you're waking up in the morning and immediately looking at your phone even while you're sleeping, if you're sleeping and your Wi-Fi is on, and you have your phone on next, your head, and you're sleeping all night with your phone, pinging back Wi-Fi all night long, you're behind the eight ball. You're doing yourself a disservice, looking at the environment that we live in, in our homes is an important element to this. So if you're getting crappy sleep then that carries over into how you feel in the morning. Every single morning, you wake up out of bed and you're tired. Something's up. You know, if you're relying on four cups of coffee, five cups of coffee a day just to get through the day, that's a problem. So if you're waking up from a poor night's sleep, and you're looking at your phone, first thing in the morning, you're immediately just like dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook emails, over and over and over every single morning, you're stacking the deck against yourself. You're really making it hard to establish a quality morning routine that will stoke your fire, that will get your energy moving. And then you know, what's the first thing that you put in your mouth in the morning? You knowwhat are you doing to replenish your body to start the day? You know, if you're working from home is your organ, is your room organized in a way for you to be successful, to be good at your job to manage your Workday effectively? You know, a lot of people, you know, you and I have been working from home working from wherever we call home for such a long time, that it's second nature to us, but there are so many people that are now working from home who are 20 feet away from the fridge and 10 feet away from the coffee pot. And the television is on back there, and they're just totally distracting themselves. So they're being born down andtheir environment isn't set, set up for them to be effective at work. And then the activities that they generate from themselves, the schedule for the day, you know, a lot of people are still trying to figure out what to do with their kids. Right. You know, I've, I've got an eight, eight and five year old, and we're managing kind of every single day. Are they going back? They're going back. Part-time Nope. They're coming back now. Okay. We're going to go do a special activities. Okay. What are those activities? And if you're constantly behind and you're trying to catch up, and you're just waiting, waiting, waiting for that shot instead of planting a garden and you know, making a fire outside in the backyard and sitting around at night, you know, wearing blue-blocking glasses, when the sun goes down to protect your circadian rhythm, you know, taking really high quality, nutrient dense supplements like yours to manage what's going on inside your body. It's really, for me, the essence of bio-hacking is what goes in you, what goes on you and what goes around you. And if you're not constantly aware of those three elements, then how the heck are you going to go garden? How are you going to make smart choices and plan your life and take some agency for what's going on in your life. And sometimes that has to start with your mentality. You know, if you're fearful, it's tough to do really anything else, because fear is such a visceral emotion, red root chakra just stay alive. And most people are just going to that first thing in the morning and sort of staying in that fear space all day long. Now I'm not spiritual bypassing here and saying that it's not hard for people. A lot of people have lost their jobs. A lot of people are really up against it right now. And they're looking for solutions. Well, the solution is you, you know, you have to change yourself. What has gotten you where you are, is not going to get you where you want to be. And for me, it's, I'm on a constant, like obsessive path to figure out all of these different ways that we can boost our energy so that we can make better choices for us and our families and our lifestyle.

 Wade Lightheart: Great stuff. And I think there's a lot to unpack there. I want to sort of back the proverbial health truck, back up to a couple of things. And because, you know, first off, if you're one of those people that, you know, lost a job, or, you know, lost the business, Hey, maybe I hated it. Maybe it sucked. So what do you, you know, like maybe that's the thing that kicked you into gear, and this is an opportunity to reinvent yourself because you got every excuse in the world, maybe you're on a career track that wasn't going anywhere. Maybe your business was kind of stalled. And I always say, hey, this could be an invitation. Maybe you were killing yourself to make the day. And it's a time to pull back to regroup. And then, you know, re-engage in a new way in the world, but I would like to know how you were able to have develop and cultivate so much clarity and about routines and awareness and how that maybe some of our listeners would like to know how, like, how did you figure all this out? And what are the most important elements that you integrate in a… I would say post COVID world or whatever that is, you know whatever state that we're in. I don't know what you would call it. Everyone says unprecedented, but I don't know. I don't know if that's actually accurate. I think there's been all sorts of challenges on the world, I think and on all levels, whether that's communication challenges or censorship, or whether that is misinformation from special interest groups or government agencies or actual exposure to pandemics. I think those things have happened throughout history. I think the technological leavers of control and information and perspective have maybe never been so tight and influential as they are now. So how did you come up with these things? How did you figure this out? How are you standing there? You know, no lines in your face, big smile system, some blue light blockers, and, you know, really shouting out with a bull horn and saying, hello, wake up. We don't think of joy. Well, how did you get there?

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. Thank you for asking that, you know, I was fortunate enough to learn meditation at a really young age. My folks taught 12.

 Wade Lightheart: Wow.

 Sean McCormick: And I hated it at first. I mean, you can imagine.

 Wade Lightheart: What's that?

 Sean McCormick: TM.

 Wade Lightheart: Okay, great.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. So my folks talk about TM.

 Wade Lightheart: He is an amazing guy.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. At the time it was a way for my parents to help manage my energy. I've always had a lot of it. And if not used correctly, you know sometimes leads to destruction and injury and you know, clearly…

 Wade Lightheart: The curse of being a bile-hacker, right. It's like, you're either going towards health and happiness, or you seem to be in the gutter of experimentation.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. Well, and for type a people that want to go, go, go, they have to find something, you know, you got to find CrossFit or, you know, water-skiing whatever, find the thing and throw yourself at it. For me, you know, at 12 years oldI was a really busy kid, you know, I got the ADHD diagnosis. My father was astill is a behavior analyst. And so he said, you know, we're not going to put you on anything. We're going to work you out.

 Wade Lightheart: Run out it to you.

 Sean McCormick: You're going to run it out to you. And if, when that doesn't work, you're going to sit still. And so I learned, you know, my father gave me his mantra and at 12 years old, I learned how to sit still, which was the last thing I wanted to do and what it did, it gave me the actual practice was really hard for me. It took me a long, I mean, it took me years and years to really kind of, it took me years to have that moment where I was like, Oh, I get it now. I understand why this is useful because it gave me just an extra beat in normal life, in normal States of consciousness to like not just react but respond and to be thoughtful and to be mindful, to be present in the moment. And so that ability way back at 12 and obviously everyone should explore meditation, find the right framework that works for you, that resonates with you. There's a thousand options. Most of them come with free trials. TM used to be, you know, 1500 bucks or more to go through. Now, it's greatly reduced. I don't remember the price now, but I think it's like, I think it's like a hundred bucks now to go through it. And that gave me sort of a framework for living in balance, living in balance with my energy, with the way that I was spending my time. It gave me some, a little bit of a buffer. Now. I still went real hard. I still was a busy body, you know, and through college. And it was when through my twenties, I was like into my mid twenties. And I was worked at a rock station, this rock radio station. And my lifestyle was, you know, pretty typical for 20. And it was like, okay, we're drinking five nights a week. You know, we're going to rock shows, we're staying out. Or, you know, and so what I found was that I was chubby, I was heavy. My skin was terrible. It wasn't sleeping well, it wasn't fulfilled. I didn't feel like I was in the right place. And I was like, this can't be it. Like, this is not how I want my life to go. And that's when I had the, you know, the wherewithal to explore opening a flotation therapy center.

 Wade Lightheart: I want to stop you right there just for a sec. So what was the alarm bell, if you will, that said this isn't working out, What was, was it an internal feeling? Was it an emotional feeling? Was it an happiness? Was it like, what was it?,

 Sean McCormick: I have the, well, how do, I mean, I've been with my wife since we were 15. She's my high school sweetheart. We've stayed together. She's my one and only everything, she's a very patient person, as you can imagine. And so we wereit was, I remember it was like a, it was a Friday night and I was getting changed, getting ready to go out. And she doesn't drink and she's like, again, like, can we just do something else? Can, you know, do you have to go, does like, it's going to be the same people having the same conversations. You're going to spend, you know, 150 bucks tonight and you're going to be lousy all weekend. And it was like, Ugh! And I thought to myself, I can't really argue for binge drinking. Like I can't really make a great case.

 Wade Lightheart: It works. It works for about the first two years of university. And then the case starts the weekend. Yeah. As the negative experiences start to compile.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. They pile up man, and you see it on your face, you see it in your body and your mentality. And I was sort of, you know, spiritually going through a lot too. I was kind of torn between, you know, looking for extended expanded States of consciousness, elevating my consciousness and then just like, you know, blacking out, you know, twice a week. So that moment was followed shortly by a conversation that she and I had about like, is this what we want our lives to be?

 Wade Lightheart: How old you were?

 Sean McCormick: And we were 20, I was 20, we were 20, 26.

 Wade Lightheart: Yes. Saturn return here. They started…

 Sean McCormick: It was approaching the Saturn return, right?

 Wade Lightheart: Yep.

 Sean McCormick: I was like, is this what's happening? I can't imagine that I'm going to be doing this for the next 40 years of my life. You know, I was making more money than I needed. And I was finding ways to spend it. And it wasn't going anywhere. It wasn't going anywhere. Good. It wasn't going anywhere fun or interesting. And so through this like moments of lifestyle change where it's like, okay, I, I do have to reassess this. I don't want to lose you. I don't want to lose myself. It's time to really take a hard look at this. And during that same time, we were having conversations about alternative trajectories. We were going to open a juice shop in Hawaii. We were going to go teach English in Thailand. You know we were exploring all of these different ideas for the way that we wanted to live our life. And then I thought back to a couple of years prior when I had my first experience in a flotation therapy tank and in a float tank and that is a whole another can of worms, my first experience. But I was like, you remember, I did that one thing I floated in that float tank. She's like, yeah. And I said, I've been looking at some of the Google analytics for how many people are actually searching for this service in Seattle. And there should be a float center here. If there's one in Portland, there's three in Vancouver, we were in Seattle and I said we should open one. And she goes, okay.

 Wade Lightheart: I love it.

 Sean McCormick: She ever says, okay.

 Wade Lightheart: Drinking.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah okay, anything. Yeah. Exactly. So at that moment that opportunity.

 Wade Lightheart: Tagline, I float tank better than drinking.

 Sean McCormick: Better than drinking. Yeah, way better. Way cooler, way weirder. Yeah. So that my life made a major turn at that moment. And that's when I cleaned a bunch of stuff up that was shortly followed by my first experience with Ayahuasca, you knowstarted to really enhance the sort of responsible use of psychedelics to like really change my mind, like really perturbed my consciousness in a way that allowed me to move forward in a bold way. So then it was just like, boom, they just started hitting food center open, have a kid open another food center, having another kid more psychedelic training, more spiritual training, just all this stuff has Piled on. And here we are, I'm now 38, I think maybe I'm 37, I've kind of lost track and now I have all these incredible opportunities and I get to have cool conversations. And now I've crafted my life to be able to spend my days having cool conversations with you. And so that moment where you knew that something had to change and for Laylamy wife at the time that she was really like the catalyst to say, yeah, let's change. Let's really do it. So, I mean, the takeaway there is talk to your partner, really.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. I love the fact that she quietly sort of invited an opportunity for reflection on what was going on that allows you to like, which wasn't like, Hey, stop doing this. It was like, well, do we kind of know how that movie goes? And I think in the drinking party game, there comes a point where you get to that space. It's like, yeah, I know how this movie's going to go. It's like watching the same film over and over again. And maybe it's a good film, but eventually it's like, yeah. And then this is going to happen. And, you know, stinky, Bob's going to do this and you know, many act Mary's going to do that. And then that's going to end up and that's going to spiral out of control. And we're going to be like blazed out all her in the media. Do we do the, you know, the bacon and eggs breakfast the next morning hung over and, you know, chug a pot of coffee to wake up and, you know, go visit the family and going, oh, why am I doing this? And then by Friday, the next week, you're back on it again. And you're like, it's becomes this kind of like, remember those cartoons when the background used to just kind of like spin, that was the same cartoons that would, it's like going back here. It's kind of like.

 Sean McCormick: And we're there again, know it's Thursday night, Friday night, and here we go again.

 Wade Lightheart: So there's a couple of things that I think is cool. The case we had meditation earlier, you did the youthful experimentation, and then you decided to get into float tanks. And can you explain what that initial experience for you in float tanks and then why that you decided that you wanted to go out and open up a float tank business? Like, like how did you go from, Hey, I had a cool experience to, I'm going to stop partying to, yeah. I'm going to open up a place. I mean, we said the logistics reasons of obviously there was a market there, but what was your experience when you started being able to access a float tank regularly? And then I guess the next piece I'm asking a lot of questions at once. I'm going to give you a lot of runway here, then the emergence of psychedelics in concordance. And the first time I heard about these float tanks was actually I was in the bodybuilding world, Frank Zane who was a formerbodybuilding champion, Mr. Olympia from 77 to 79, I believe. And was the first guy to beat Arnold Schwarzenegger when he landed in 1968 or 1967 or 1968 in Florida. And Arnold was shocked cause this guy was so ripped and so symmetrical. And probably today, most people would say Frank Zane would be the most likable or universally likable physique out of the Mr. Olympia era's from 65 all the way on beautiful classical lines, kind of an ectomorph, but got really lean. And was very, he had this thing called the insane experience. And part of it was in these float tanks, right? Sensory deprivation, chambers. They were oftentimes tight, all of that. So let's see where this ship go. So have at it set the core to the psychedelic Zamminer float zone.

 Sean McCormick: It ties together. You know, I, based on my meditation experience through high school and college and post-college, I was, I kept coming across the connection between mindfulnessthe sensation, the experience and what the float experience was, which is a real disconnection. You could call it that, but a loss of connection to your physical body to really change your consciousness in a way where your body goes away in your consciousness, which is infinite begins to expand. And so as I'm doing my reading and research into mindfulness practices, I came across John Lilly who was the creator of the float tank. And he…

 Wade Lightheart: Very interesting guy, John Lilly.

 Sean McCormick: Fascinating guy, I mean, brilliant scientist and researcher, he was commissioned to work on the Navy to develop the first flotation tank. And his idea was, well, earlier than that they would think that when you we're out of extra sensory stimuli, if you didn't have any taste, touch, sound, smell, if your senses were shut off, you would just like fall asleep. And actually the opposite happens when you are in a reduced sensory environment, your brain goes into theta state and you, you get into a meditation sort of meditates youth float tank steel. So I'm fascinated by this. And I think that in that time in my life, my Saturn was returning my lifestyle was not what I wanted. And it was in this sort of, you know, again like that sort of revolving door. I kept, I looked on Craigslist to see if there's any float tanks around. And there was a guy that was 10, 50 miles away who had one in his basement. So I went to Brian's house who was 15 miles away on my lunch break at my job, where I was wearing a suit and tie, you know, selling advertising at a radio station. And I had an out-of-body experience in my very first float tank session. I went downstairs, he got me set up, I got into this, you know, really super cool old school float tank called the Pathfinder and super, I Mean, it's super futuristic, like out of, you know, a minority report kind of like just like pod thing. And I get in and I relax into it and I begin to go into my sort of meditation practice. And then suddenly I find myself, you know, 10 feet up looking down at myself in the tank. So I could see through the tank, I could see myself, I could see the basement downstairs and through my meditation practice, I knew not to freak out. You know, I've had these, these States of consciousness that are unusual and kind of freaky, but, you know, I just kept breathing and staying with it. And then I proceeded to like pop out, like through his house and into his backyard. So I'm projecting out a body in his basement, into his backyard. And I'm like looking at all the details. I hadn't seen his backyard when I drove up to his house, but I can see it now. And I could see the path where his dog would run around the perimeter of the hall. And I could see like the place that and all the toys in the backyard from his kids. And then I kind of came back in through the bedroom of his, you know, the son. And then I hear, okay, Sean, your time is up. And I just like, popped back into my body. You know, that'll change your life, having an experience like that, where it's like, I didn't try to make that happen. That just voluntarily happened. And now I find myself like trying to figure out what that was and why that was obviously that opened Pandora's box for me to dive deeper into it. You know, I get out and he's like, how was that? And I go… Man, he's like, okay, all right.

 Wade Lightheart: I love it! It's always a great thing when people literally are speechless, you know, resort to like sounds and that grave, if you're usually on the right track there.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. I'm not, yeah. How am I supposed to be like, well, I had an out-of-body experience that I had saw your kid's bedroom and like, you know, so he's like, I'll pour you a cup of tea. So we're chatting and pours me a cup of tea. And he's like, you know what do you got going the rest of the day? I said, I'm going back to work now. And he's like, Oh, that's a bummer. He's like that. I would advise against that. So I was like, okay. And he said, well, you know, you got any plans for tonight. And I was going to go see a show. I was going to go see 3:11. So, he's like, it's going to be the best concert you've ever been to because I've had this experience of extra sensory passions, well, yeah, because I was deprived in the session, everything is heightened on the way out. So like colors and tastes and sounds are so much more vivid and that sort of anchored my experience. And it took me a long time to kind of unpack what that was. And I started to dive into the work of Edgar Casey, and I started to look into remote viewing and I started to do some of these practices so that I could make some sense of what was going on. And then it just sort of stuck with me. And over time, as I continued to do this research into these altered States of consciousness I was like, man, I don't know if I'm going to go back and float at Brian's house, but I have a lot of reading and research to do. And then it was like two or three years later when we had that first conversation with my wife, where he decided to open one. And that sort of was the foundation for my approach to wellness, which is if you've got too much input, if you've got too much food and too much media, too much stress and fear, and you have to kind of simplify, you have to go back to baseline either through meditation or through fasting or through you know, using a float tank to get back in touch with who you are. You feel like a kid again, when you, when you get outside of those external stimuli, you feel, you're curious, you're more energetic. You know, there's an innocence to that when you're not drinking and smoking and just being a jack ass, you knowso that, that really sort of guided my path. Then we bootstrapped the business. You know, I saved a bunch of money. We opened this float center was the first, which was the first float center, the first public center since like 1982. And for, you know, for Frank Zane, I'm sure that a big part of that was recovery. You know, like he not only the magnesiumsulfate absorption to release tension in the muscles and lubricate the joints and so forth, but to introduce inflammation, but to recover faster. And so that level of recovery, that sort of idea that I need, if I didn't want to go forward in my life, if I want to make better choices for myself, I've got to slow down, I've got to shut up. I need to sit still and be calm so that I can make better decisions, kind of going back to the way we started this. It's like, if you're overwhelmed and full of fear, you have to start by reducing things before you can add in, you know, this idea of this kind of dopamine fast came out of that is what variables that can you control so that you can get back to a baseline? You know, it was around that same time, a little bit later, kind of closer to my thirties where I first did was Ayahuasca. And the preparation for Ayahuasca is a week or two of no salt, no sex, no drugs and alcohol, no red meat, no garlic, you know, basically like really simplifying your gut and your field so that you can be receptive to the energies of this plant medicine. And that really struck with struck a chord with me. Cause I was already looking for ways to kind of get back in touch with myself and then things just sort of like continue to, the universe recognized what I was doing. You know, my spirit guides are recognizing what I was doing, an opportunity after opportunity came my way to open more businesses to start our family, you know, and then later coaching and podcasting and stuff like that. So, yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: Super cool. And there's a lot there. I'm going to circle back to the dopamine conversation in a minute. I want to go down and keep going down the psychedelic point and then maybe some practical dopamine addiction reduction components. CauseI think that we're going to have a digital treatment centers through, because essentially this, these devices have created. What I would say is probably… I'm confident that this is potentially the greatest addiction that has ever hit humans. And it's really deep. It's really significant. And I don't think that we've even come close to identifying how dopamine addictions but just to give people some context, texting and driving and the response to your texting while you're driving is because of an addiction to whatever's coming on that and you are afraid, you know, going down the road 60, 70 miles an hour or whatever and you're texting or whatever. People texting actually die more than people drinking and driving now.

 Sean McCormick: Wow! Yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: So put that in perspective, you know, and I remember when drinking and driving became uncool. I remember that particular time we started in, I think in the late seventies and really hit home in the eighties and by the nineties, people are like, you know, designated drivers and, you know, get a cab like, you know, that became more of the common speak as opposed to, I'm fine. I've only had 32 beers tonight. I'm good. You know, and I come from a culture where, you know, drinking and driving was essentially a badge of honor, very much like how maybe, you Know, smoking marbles was a badge of honor back in the fifties and forties and sixties and stuff. And then I think that being on your phone and reachable or super switched on to social media or whatever, the latest and greatest is, is also seen as a badge of honor in certain tech circles for certain business circles. And I think we'll look back on this and 10 or 20 years hopefully, and see the addiction, but where did Ayahuasca play a part? What kind of ceremonies did it? Was it like a traditional Chemonics stuff? Was it Santa diamond? What, like, how did you get at that? Right. Because there's a lot of different entrances into that worlds. Some and one of my concerns right now is with the information that's out there. I think a lot of people are using not going through the pre and post. I would say elements, they're seeing it as, hey, it's the latest thing to do. Go hang out with my friends and do some ion. And they're not really treating it as what it is, which is technically a medicine for the sickness within your mind or in your soul that is causing conflict in your life.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. It's not a party drug and you shouldn't do it by yourself. You're not equipped to handle what you're opening yourself up to. For me, my foray into exploration of consciousness, again sort of anchoring back to my, to my youth with meditation, you just kind of really started in college, you know, experimenting with mushrooms and LSD and using it in a way to understand myself and understand reality and understand my relationships. And when I first was introduced to itthere was a Shipibo, so Shipibo-Conibo, there's a tribe in Peru. And if you ask the tribe members of Shipibo, they'll say that they were the originators, that they found it first, that tobacco told them that they could go find this root over here and this leaf over here and combine them to heal.

 Wade Lightheart: If you look at the odds that I think some mathematicians have calculated the odds of figuring that out, it's virtually impossible that you would put these two kind of toxic substances together and create this other experience. And there's many different versions of how each Shaman will cook it up and their ship, people from my understanding, and I have a considerable amount of medical doctors and naturopathic doctors who spend time in the Amazon with them, they also find your particular plant because they're so symbiotic relationship in buying the plant that's right for you, which may be, I may not be like, it's like their integration with ethnos botanical influence. You know, like if you think of a person that understands the navigation of a city and where the grass restaurants and where the grass clubs are and where you put your food and where you get the entertainment, you can think of that. But imagine a culture for our listeners that have been living for thousands of years, right on integrated on the edge of the Amazon and these traditions and levels of aware that they're living in a different world literally on a day to day basis. And that world has extraordinary levels of values and information that to the casual urbanite cannot possibly comprehend it.

 Sean McCormick: The rich, I mean, all of our medicines come from some plant derivative, you know, aspirin comes from Birch trees, you know, all of them start as a natural form. And the Ayahuasca curandero understands this vast array of plants and dedicates their life to understanding the power of these plants, to use them to heal in different circumstances. And I have not done a DNA yet. I have not, I have not gone into the gone that route yet, and my time may be coming. But the opportunity that I had was actually here in Washington state. So through the Shipibo lineage, there were a number of practitioners in Washington who were apprenticing in Peru with Shipibo people for, you know, a decade before they started to come and they would go, you know, three or four times a year and isolate and fast and diet, these specific plants. And so my introduction to it was in my first ceremony was in the States obviously discreetly and quietly within the community of people that I was affiliated with her in the community. And the first experience for me was beyond anything that I could have expected that I could have calculated foryou know, being in a year with 15 other people and then four Shaman and three apprentices inside of this massive space. And there is so much going on. I mean, there's people purging, there's people crying, there's people riving, my eyes are open some of the time and close other the time. And I'm, you know, I'm a highly visual experience, or like my, when I have, even when I dream, when I micro dose or when I'm on psilocybin or Ayahuasca like very visual for me. And so, you know, my experience was not only where the eco rosehow much have you talked about Ayahuasca on your podcast? Have you gone into it?

 Wade Lightheart: We haven't talked about it that much. We touched the subject a little bit with some people about, so keep going and let's go as deep as you want to go.

 Sean McCormick: These Shaman are doctors, they're healers, you know, they have a prescriptive way to heal you and they heal you through these things called IKAROS. And these IKAROS are songs that represent these plants. It's a technology it's using the humming and singing and whistling to activatethis plant medicine in you. And so, for example you know, there's a plant called Ahusacha and Ahusacha is a master plant within the vastness of the Amazon. There are these different plants use for different purposes and these Shaman will learn that. So they'll go for sometimes up to a year or longer, eating nothing but a little bit of riceboney river fish, and then this plant, and they'll rub it on themselves. They'll make tinctures of it. They'll eat. It they'll smoke. They'll drink it. They'll combine it with the actual Ayahuasca plant medicine to learn everything about this plant. And as they learn about this plant, it then becomes an arrow in their quiver. It becomes a diagnostic tool. It becomes a treatment for them, so that if you're coming in and you have a lot of fear, a lot of bad energy, a lot of addiction,oxic relationships in your life, they can use, in this case Ahusacha as a prescriptive to clean you up. And these IKAROS, which everyone's different, every different Ayahuasca has different ways to sing these IKAROS, you know, they'll say it's in the Shipibo lineage, it's a monosyllabic. So it's, you know,een geen buygeen, meen geen buygeen, sowa sowa buygeen, meen geen buygee. What they're doing is they're curing you, they're healing you through singing these songs that are attached can connect it to these plants to help you clear out your field. And for my first experience with these 15 other people in this giant yard, in these shaman that were singing,I didn't really go in with a great intention, but as I started to come into it, it was like, you're here for healing. You're here for healing, for healing, for healing. You're here for healing. And I would ask, well, heal what? Heal this. And then it would show me this part of my life, that where I made a bad choice, they would show me a part of my life, where I was, you know, bad to someone. They would show me a part of my past life. Past lives that I've had before, where they, where I, you know, acted poorly or had some sort of traumatic event. And that healing for me in this first night went all the way back through a bunch of different lives that I'd had way back to really try a life that I had in a tribe. And I was a woman, I was married, as my husband was there and our kids were there and he was killed and I was lost in this previous life. And it was this in this moment, in that night, you know, white dude from Seattle doing this for lawsuit experience, it was healing backward. It was healing that part of me from that trauma, from that past life shown these incredible flying buttresses and these amazing environments that were blanketed with geometric designs and serpents and alligators, where I was immersed with them. And again, connected with this thing, and I was, my body was gone. I was not Sean anymore. I was just connected into this place and this place of healing. So to say the least, my first experience totally changed the way that I saw reality, totally change the way that I saw consciousness and reminded me how much or how little I really knew about the earth and its properties, where it's from, where humanity is from afterward, the guy next to me, he was kind of a big shot here in Seattle. I didn't know it at the time. And I was like, you know, Hey,Mike, how was your trip? You know, I didn't know what to do. I was, you know, kind of a disaster and a kid. And he's like,you know, that's okay. You know, just do my thing. Kind of didn't really want to talk to me. And I was like, Hey, I've got to ask like about halfway through. I found myself in this like arena. And it felt like you were there with me and he goes,yeah, I was there with you. Did you see this thing? He was describing this arena to me. And he's like, did you see the white arches? And I was like, yeah, I saw the white arches. Did you see like the lizard guys? I was like, I saw the lizard guys. I was like, did we really share this experience? And he said, we share this experience that happens from time to time. He's like, it's nice to meet you. So we connected and had a cool moment there that followed by two more nights of that back-to-back-to-back three nights in a row, really opened me up to a possibility of a whole new reality of a whole new frame of consciousness and really sort of anchored the sense of wellness that we are so disconnected from in the Western world and disconnected from the plants. We all have medicine in our backyard. You know, we all have these plants growing around us that we can use that we can tap into. You know, I'm saying that to you, of course, you know that because you are exploring these compounds, how to use them, how to help them heal, how you can combine them to help people heal their gut or reduce inflammation or increase their focus. Like you're doing that yourself. It was, it was, it was at that point where I really got into natural health and natural wellness,supplementation and kind of cleaning up and having more appreciation for mother earth. And it's continued to this day, man, that's still a big part of, you know, how I try to live my life.

 Wade Lightheart: Do you think that your prior training in meditation and maybe some of the float tank training better prepared you for those experiences and did say post your first experience and subsequent experience, do you feel that floating and meditation took on a different tone or a different capability? I'd like to see the interaction, interpret play between those mediums?

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. For me the ability to not freak out.

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. That's happens to a lot of people. They're not. And one of the reasons if you go to an event like that they'll test you for, you know, mental illnesses or comptonization, or if you're an SSR arise and if you are maybe on an anti anxiety medication or you have Bi polar issues and stuff like, this is not compounds that people need to be playing around with or experimenting with, without the guidance and proper awareness about potential complications or psychic breaks or initiating stuff. These are serious compounds meant for that. And I want to caveat that. So, don't go run out to the local guy and say, Hey, let me gunned down a few shots at this stuff and go for a ride. So that's a recipe for disaster, but going back to this, what would the changes in your regular quote unquote bile-hacking or health optimization technologies that you noticed after the experience?

 Sean McCormick: Yeah, well, I knew the experience going in was I knew to keep breathing. I knew to not while out and lose it and freak out and just be in total awe so much. You really do have to stay present. If you just like lay back on your mat and just, you know, watch the light show, you're missing the opportunity to do the work and to echo your sentiment, your playing with portals, you're playing with massively powerful compounds that can open you up to yourself and to entities and to beings and to States of consciousness, that if you don't have an experienced practitioner with you to help you navigate that, you may be doing yourself some damage, you may be really opening yourself up to some darkness because it's part of the story too. There can't be like without darkness. And there is a lot of darkness that we try to push away or kind of like ignore, let go of and that stuff often comes right up to the surface. And if you don't have somebody to help navigate that or to clean you up or protect you, or like, refortify you during that experience, it's a big problem. So, for me…

 Wade Lightheart: Yes, this is interject there. One of my favorite lines in the Christian tradition was the light shining upon the darkness and the darkness comprehended not. And there's similar quotations in the Bhagavad Gita and ignorance or darkness. It is often referred to as a 'vidya' or non knowledge. And there's an interplay between the creationary force, the satanic force and the separation of light and darkness and why those are an essential play Lila, here in consciousness or physicality. And that which happens in the kind of consciousness rounds enters into the light rounds, which then manifests into a slower vibratory component. And that's all relative in physics. We understand it the inter-dimensional and portal realities and stuff. So we might sound very far out, but you can crop fine cross correlations between advanced theoretical and quantum physics, spiritual awareness as well as simple breath work and sound practices, which are just methodologies of altering a vibratory frequency and matter is a form of slower vibration. If you look at light is both, a particle and a wave, and these sort of things start to make a lot more sense as you dive deeper into this. But that being said you can get lost in one of those realms, and that's going to correlate to the next thing we're going to talk about, but I want you to continue on in a second.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. The context for that experience really shaped my spiritual practice. And I've been working for a long time with this incredible woman who is a spiritual midwife. She's a channel she has access. She doesn't do a Kaushik record stuff that she's a channel. So she has access to guides, masters your highest self, her high self. She works within the Pantheon of these….

 Wade Lightheart: Let's just say outside the yellow pages.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. And within the context of that practice, there was strong during that time, you know, as I was thinking about which of my spirit guides were present through this experience I wanted to figure out how this stuff kind of worked together, right? How does Archangel Michael or Raphael come into this plant work? You know, how does St. Germaine have anything to do with you know pinion Blanco, you know, this planet from the jungle and everything is connected, everything is connected and it's an oversimplification, but it's true. There is such depth in biodiversity, as much biodiversity as there is on this planet and there is a lot, there is much more diversity in the entities, the beings, the States of consciousness, the non-physical reality that we just can't pick up on. We just don't most of us just don't see. And so that marriage of this medicine work with Ayahuasca, I was integrating into my own spiritual practice around working with spirit guides and getting real collaboration from these beings that had been with me against since I was a kid and going forward the plant medicines opened me up to a greater appreciation for nutrition, opened me up to a greater appreciation for what we put into our bodies, how we alchemize things inside of our bodies, what they do for us and the fact that each of us are different and we need different things. So that was a piece of the puzzle. That's still very, very important to me in the way that I, you know, the plants that I plant in my garden. And, you know, recently I've been reading a lot into biodynamic farming and Rudolph, the work of Rudolf Steiner, you know, my kids…

 Wade Lightheart: Far out predictions about viruses and pandemic. Like, you're going, wait a minute other than and I know Paul Check is, you know, very tuned into Steiner and I would refer people to Paul Check in some of his summation of Steiner's work on his podcast, because I think Paul has done a great job of kind of condensing Steiner's work just as a side note. Paul's certainly a great interpreter of very esoteric things. I think Steiner is so far out, but yet so applicable in today's world.

 Sean McCormick: Totally.

 Wade Lightheart: Frighteningly accurate. So anyways, sorry to interject there, but I just thought it was really important because they'll never have enough time to kind of dive into the depth of everything that you want to do. We're opening up a lot of doors here, and so I want to provide some avenues and corridors for people to kind of explore if they so wish in these experiments. So continue on, sorry to interject.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. No, you're right. You're right. Paul is, he is, I mean, he is a living, he is the encyclopedia or he is the library of Alexandria.

 Wade Lightheart: Have you seen it?

 Sean McCormick: Yeah, no, I haven't seen it. I've heard about it, but I haven't seen it.

 Wade Lightheart: Greatest library in the holistic health space I've ever seen by any staff and every time I'm down there just to be there. And he's like, the books are immersed in his office. And so like, he's surrounded by an… In it and actively communes with these aspects. And literally it won't be in a state and walk to a book. He says some of the books he's never read, he just knew that he had to get it. And then like five years later, he's told that he needs to go and grab that book and read something that's relative to what he's doing. So he's that develop his intuition to that level, which is pretty phenomenal. So go ahead. Sorry. I keep interjecting, but…

 Sean McCormick: No, you're totally fine. No the connection with Steiner that I really, and my kids are getting now going to a Waldorf school and, you know, I'm able to see how it integrates, see how they teach children, see how the foundation of honoring the soul, honoring the individuality that we have, the opportunity that we have in this, incur in each of our individual incarnations to learn and to understand our, how to learn. Also a big thing that I have really resonated with Steiner on is the connection between the plant kingdom and the etheric, the etheric bodies, the non-physical beings. And because my spiritual practice has revolved so heavily around collaboration with my spirit guides and the spirit guides of my clients and connection with masters that marrying those two with this beautiful blue marble spinning and outer space, how these things kind of fit together is something that I will never learn enough about. But I am committed to continue to see what they can do what that sort of worldview, what that spiritual point of view will allow us to continue to learn in our lives as we go forward and going again, back to the like first few minutes of this podcast, this conversation is about like this opportunity that we have to make some real changes, and you have to change yourself. You have to be willing to learn. You have to be curious about what's going on in the world and how your consciousness works. And you should also, you know, you should be careful, you should be aware that, that sometimes things get squirrely and sometimes things get dark and that's okay, because that gives you an opportunity to learn. Right.

 Wade Lightheart: I was talking to Paul a couple of days ago in reference to an experience that I had recently that was disconcerting on a very deep level and talked to him about it. And it was interesting. And one of the things that he said is that if you are truly wishing to engage in a shamanic experience, as it is not through, Hey, I'm local industrialized commercialized shamanistic, but the true pathways that these individuals embody, where they spend lifetime, training and learning the methodologies, he says, anytime that you enter into one of those ceremonies, you want to be prepare to not come back to merge yourself with thing. And I think a lot of people don't consider that. Like, and if you even just use that as a filter, the things that you want it to do, and the things that you should do on a day-to-day basis, like, okay, if this is my last moment in life, is this, how is this what I want to be doing? Is this want to be thinking, or is this how I want to be? And I think by the sacredness of ceremony, which has been practiced throughout histories and have lost some of its essence and the technological world around us called it set and setting but setting the set, doing the practices, setting the intonations, and really getting quiet to go within, as opposed to, without to become aware of the things that are disrupting our lives are causing us to be less than complete within ourselves and total. And I'm delighted that so many people are now engaged in this. And I'm also concerned that so many people are not bringing the sacred practice of really honoring that divine and all that is that we don't know and all the nonlinear aspects of existence and non-existence and consciousness and the soul's journey and what really this is all about. I think that can be a wonderful discovery, but if you're not there, your chances of going down a dark alley and having some of these things I think is much higher and more likely, if you don't bring that sacred awareness into something.

 Sean McCormick: The popularity of centers around the world you know, I've heard so many times from fairly popular destinations to do this type of work that people come back and they are stair still super open. And they've absorbed some energy that aren't so good for them and they come back way worse off, and maybe they didn't take it seriously, or maybe the environment in the community that they chose to go do this deep work is maybe not the best of intentions, and maybe it's not there to help you heal and grow and open and progress in your life, but maybe as a way to, you know, accept your dollars and then see you next time and see you next time. And I'm leery of it too. And that's coming from a guy who has not been to the jungle. You know, I've not done seven days in the rainforest, you know, or a beach, you know, I've done it here locally, but it is something that I think that people should take very seriously, should take very seriously in their preparation, should take very seriously in their reintegration, after their experience. And I'm having conversations with a couple of different centers and a couple of individuals that are involved with different centers as to see if I can help contribute with some integration stuff. Cause that's part of the work that I do is to help people. Okay, cool. You learn some cool stuff. You saw some great stuff now, what are you going to do with it? Right.

 Wade Lightheart: That's the other part is post. And a lot of people, I think sometimes make a radical and not well thought out decisions afterwards that cause a lot of distress and I'm like they maybe get into or get out of relationships that have severe consequences. There may be career shifts that are not well thought out beforehand. And so grounding this in a daily practice with I would say post guidance as much as pre preparation. And I think really can make psychedelics a great tool. And without them, I think they're better left, not tried unless you're willing to do both the pre and post work.

 Sean McCormick: I totally agree. And we need help, right? We…

 Wade Lightheart: Yeah. You need guidance in these things.

 Sean McCormick: Talk to, reach out to people. Who've done it before, reach out to people who you respect. And you're like, man, I really liked the way that this person handles this.

 Wade Lightheart: Well and who they are as a person. That's a good sign. It's like, are they freaking out at their family members? Are they yelling? And like, who is that person? And chances are, if they haven't cultivated those capabilities themselves, they know someone that has, that is guiding them through this. That is, you know, the idea is when you go to these experiences is that you come out with a directional awareness of the things that you need to work on in your regular life, then maybe initiating or engaging or deepening and practice that allows you to become a more integrated, happier, healthier human, not one that's like totally off the loony tune train and, you know, crashing and burning in this idea of pseudo spirituality, new ageism, where you get lost and your life goes downhill and your family members are going, what happened to you that, you know, to Bob or to Mary, you know, we all have those. We know people like that.

 Sean McCormick: Right? Yeah. The work up to and the work on the backside of experiences like this is everything because your friends are still there at home, your family, your habits, all of the things that you, when you left to go do this experience as a seeking, seeking greater awareness, seeking greater clarity, seeking some healing, you're all the same vices, all the same habits and negative thought power patterns and trigger points are all there waiting for you in return. So unless you have somebody that you can work with to help navigate that, or unless you have enough resolve in yourself to say, okay, I'm going to make some behavioral changes. Like I'm going to give up sugar. Like, I'm just not going to touch it. I didn't touch it for a week before ceremony. I'm really not going to touch anymore. I'm going to choose not to watch so much media. I'm going to choose to be more kind and think about how I respond to my children. I'm going to, you know, consume less plastic. Like those sorts of changes. Like that's just as like a baseline. You can also start meditating. You can also start journaling and continuing to build off of that experience. Like what good is a spiritual awakening. If you don't do anything with it, right. If you just, you know.

 Wade Lightheart: It just becomes an experience, not a course corrector or a course direction. And then what happens is a lot of people start chasing the next experience.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: And then you're just like that guy going out on the bar on Friday night.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah.

 Wade Lightheart: You're chasing it and you know the scene, but you're not taking away or extracting the wisdom out of life. And you can extract wisdom out of the mundane or the sublime. It's the extraction of wisdom is a cultivated process. And one of the qualities, I think that denotes masters is most of them live a relatively simple life. And there's a great line autobiography of a Yogi, which I find is just such a great text, where Yogananda says that the contemporaries of the master are not limited to the narrow present. And I think there's eternal throughout the ages in regards to that. So I think we've covered that one, but before we wind this thing up, cause they're going along and I love it. It's fun. And we're having a great time. I want to get into something practical that maybe our listener can listen to, that they can take it out. And we talked about fasting, we talk about getting quiet or being able to move the distractions. And we also talked about digital addictions and I think now that we've kind of gone through all of that, you know, psychedelic component and it's information. I think the first step though before engaging in that is like, Hey, let's face it. You and everyone else is addicted to this. I think it's pretty concord and there's various levels. And some of those addictions are manageable or just to a certain and a lot of them are, how does it, and maybe you can explain the mechanism of the addiction of technology and then how youth come to doing these kind of dopamine fast and dopamine resets, which are starting to catch a little bit of trend here in the bio-hacking community.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. It's about dopamine. We are….

 Wade Lightheart: Okay that should be a book title it's all dopamine.

 Sean McCormick: Dopamine, it is where he have found ourselves now where we just it's part of our life that we are glued to our phones. We look at it when we're waiting in line at the grocery store, pumping gas, driving at 70 miles an hour, we're doing it to just escape for a minute. And that is doing terrible things for your attention span. It's doing terrible things for you, the neurotransmitters in your brain. And we are frying the mainframe kind of all day every day. And if you are waking up with your phone and you're on tech all day, and then the last thing you do is watch two hours of Netflix. And you're looking at your phone in your bed before you go to sleep and then you click off your phone and you're like, okay, I'm going to go to sleep now, you're selling yourself short and there are a couple of different ways. In fact, it's funny because I've had frameworks that I've worked on clients with, I have this thing called the full moon reset and to be totally honest and I really talked about it like this way, but I've built out courses before on this. And I have, for some reason I just have not, I have not like activated them. They're built, they're done. They're ready. I've got two that I really like that are really effective, but something it's like, I've got this full moon reset. That's about like detaching from dopamine and all these negative habits that you have. And I feel bad, like marketing it because, you know, it's like I and this other thing called the stop method and I'll cover both of these. Cause these are really, really useful. But like I deactivated the Kartra account in the link on my website doesn't work anymore because it's like, in order for me to get through to people to do this stuff, I have to market it. And I have to think about marketing. And I have to look at the screen more.

 Wade Lightheart: Dr. Jordan Peterson talks about this. He says, do not underestimate the importance of marketing. If you want to get your message of your most important message and free is not always the right price.

 Sean McCormick: Right? Yeah. It's a quandary. I keep finding myself in.

 Wade Lightheart: I'm curious about this because a lot of people want to know this. I don't think I ever revealed this, but years ago I did a full moon ceremony in Bali, Indonesia at the turf of temple, which is water temple, which is outside of Ubud and just a really great place in Bali. And you go in there and they've had this temple, I think since the 12 hundreds or something like that, it's like, it's really 7,800 years old. It's really old temple. And there's this water that comes down and it goes through these different things. And there's a ceremony and you get in the water under the full moon in the jungle and it's a purification aspect and you go, alright. While I'm doing. And I got there and you know, it's like white guys standing in his special towel in the water and they're all, you know, the Balinese, they're kind of like, oh yeah, we got another one of these guys, you know, and kind of doing the thing. And, you know, I get to the points and these wonderful Balinese people looked at me realized, I didn't know what I'm doing. And like, Hey, you know, dip yourself under this pipe, this pipe, this pipe. But those last two, those are only for people that have had deaths or people that are having bursts. So you don't go to those ones, just do these ones here. So they guided me through it, just like serendipitously. And I went through it, it was transformative. I mean, I had a after the event, which was interesting as it was, but after the event, I had a transformative experience relative to an aspect of my emotional life that I had been unresolved at that moment, I was going through a difficult emotional piece and it really worked. And I was like guys, seven or eight years ago, figured out this full moon thing and the general lately, we've got this stuff like, yeah, there's something do this stuff. Right? So dopamine, which is the primary neurochemical, which is associated with addictions and cocaine and heroin and speed and all these sorts of things. And it's also oftentimes the referred to as the neurochemical for performance and acceleration and excellence and type a personalities. And, you know, you get the dopamine hit and it's addictive in its nature, right? But t's designed to increase neuro-genesis so that you create increased Axion and dendrites to a behavior mechanism that develops the neurophysiological connections to the performance of a particular skill or task that may be supportive to you as a human that's the cultivation is a summary of what dopamine is designed to do. So, for example, if you are throwing a sphere and you practice this a lot, you develop these axon dendrite connections by repeat it. And when you hit the bullseye, you get a hit of dopamine, which further anchors the thing and you throw it again. So this is the whole mechanism of practice or overexposure for the achievement or development of particular skills, whether that's physiological skills, cognitive skills, it's that aha moment. It's that yes moment. It's the winning moment. It's the one we all cheer about when the crowd explodes for the touchdown, this is the dopamine response mechanism, which has been used throughout humanity for ever to cultivate excellence in everything. Yet, some guys in Silicon Valley in some great, you know, neurocognitive PhD said, Hey, how can we create devices that will leverage a host of technological interventions to give us the dopamine hit so that I stay on this app longer and we can sell you more stuff, but that's really a very crude, rude summation of what's gone wrong. And now we have people, literally, I watch it in Venice here all the time on their phone, walking out into traffic, oncoming traffic, while they're like thumbing with whatever, like they're responding to some social media post or Twitter account that they blew up with the latest political guy and they're texting him, you know smack the car hits. I mean, it's like, can you like, you know, addiction to me the definition of it, it is a compulsive behavior that is leading to a negative outcome in both your personal professional life. We wanted to find that right, emotional disease, psychological disease, or in its extreme case where you are impaired your decision-making process, to an extent that you are taking on unnecessary risk for yourself and others with dire consequences. That was how I would call addiction in a summation kind of point. But this, the thing is about leveraging, you know, the dopamine addiction stuff. Here, the problem with it is you're, not getting the positive, like you're not getting positive development of the skill. So you, you literally abused the chemical in your body, not what it's for, but for someone else's gain. And that's the big problem.

 Sean McCormick: That is a big you're right. That's so well said. That is an excellent distillation of what's going on and getting a little hit, you know alike, you know, somebody double taps a post that you dida response on Twitter and email, you know, like it's constantly firing. We're getting in watching TV, we're getting watching the news. We're constantly seeking it out and it's on demand. And the colors are designed to fire that, you know, there's so much money and so much research. Genius people leveraging that neuro-transmitter on that effect and you're right. It's not making you better. There's no improvement happening there. You know, even for folks like you and I who use social media to tell stories and to help people and to sell products that we believe in they're changing people's lives, those were using it. And it still gets squirrely pretty quick. You know, like this, when you are finding yourself at every opportunity, just like going to your phone, stop yourself.

 Wade Lightheart: I'll give a specific examples if we can understand. So I moved down to LA last year, and then I had to get my driver's license, my California driver's license. I got it. And it's a total ridiculous task COVID situations. I want to give a real world of how dopamine addictions messed me up. And I'm not a social media guy. I have my team that handles me. They walk me through the steps of how to do an IGE live. I still, I did one today. I was like struggling to get on there. And this is like hilarious. And you know, all my young adept people on the team, they're like, Oh yeah, that's all the way we need to explain. They send me the message of what I need to do to interact and I tend to use YouTube for learning. Like I want to learn something or get insight from different perspectives and it's great. But in related to this, they explain how crazy this is and how it can impair your life. So I got my beginner's drivers. I'm supposed to get my other drivers. I haven't gotten to the point of where I need to go again. And now it's expired, I got to get another one. And so I still use my Canadian license and I've been renting cars and I've been searching online for cars, right? Like, okay then like one day, I'm sure I'm going to buy the BMW X five. And then the next thing. No, it's California. I want a convertible. And should I get this convertible then? I think, and then, oh, wow. Well, you know, I don't know if I want to buy the best money for that. Maybe I could get one of these old retro cars and, well, it could be the apocalypse. Maybe I should get a Humvee. And then I'm looking at these, come on. Now I'm in some like government site, that's selling old military Humvees. And the next day I'm in luxury auto looking at like, you know, used Bentleys and end of the day, I'm like, no, I should just get it like a Ford expeditions guy throw lots of bucks and stuff in it or like. And then I had this, see the other night, I'm sitting at home, it's 11:39 at night. And what am I doing? I'm scrolling through Facebook marketplace and I'm looking at cars. And then it dawns on me. I've been looking at cars on Facebook marketplace for 14 months. And haven't bought a car because I'm addicted to the possibility or what I could get from the car. But actually having and whatever the car I get it's car, it's got four wheels. Okay. Maybe you look cool. And the guy goes, oh, well, nice wheels are like, Oh, that's a bucket of bolt. Whatever. But living in this dopamine anticipation cycle has actually become more addictive than actually having the car itself. And then I realized, well, wait a minute, I've gone 14 months without actually owning a car. I just go, when I need a car, I just go rent a car and go down a lot. And I get another dopamine. And I'm like, Oh, I'm going to take must and committed to pay, so I've driven like over the last year, like 50 different cars. So it's totally gone out of control.

 Sean McCormick: I've been 39.

 Wade Lightheart: You're going to reveal something for me to get out of this car, drug addicted, dopamine to hell. But I've been living in, come to the realization a couple of Saturday nights ago that I'm blocked into.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. So it's called the full moon reset and it takes a half Siberian cycle from the new moon to the full moon. And in that 14, 15 or 16 days, you're going to quit Facebook, you're going to use only technology that is essential to your work. If you have to work right. If you likely use a computer for work, go ahead and use it for that. No social media, no Netflix, no YouTube like literally no media for 14 days.

 Wade Lightheart: No media, 14 days is…

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. If you can make it two weeks, you can make it two weeks.

 Wade Lightheart: Two weeks would be sad.

 Sean McCormick: So it's a media fast. You're going to just take a break from it. If you want to, if you want the support and kudos that you're doing something cool for yourself, you can tell your friends, you know, you can share it. You can post it online and say, hey, I'm doing a call. What you want and call it full and reset whatever taking 14 or 15, sometimes 16 days in this half day to your real cycle, leveraging the power of moon phases.

 Wade Lightheart: Did you start on the full moon or end.

 Sean McCormick: You start on the new moon, which has no moon, right? So no moon in the sky and you can look it up on a moon phase calendar. We'll start on that day, it's the darkest night of the moon cycle. So there's no moon in the sky. That's when you start for those 14 days, you're going to media fast. Okay. You're also going to radically change the way that you're eating, right. For a lot of, you know, especially, you know, for you wade, you're dialed for a lot of other people who have, you know, bowl ice cream or glass of wine, kind of night. Cut it up. Like no gluten, no flour, no sugar, no alcohol. So you're totally changing, like in 14 days, changing the way that you consume food and drugs and alcohol, right? It's abstinence. It is a fast from it. So you're going to fast from media. You're going to fast from foods that are very good for you. Processed garbage, you know, you've covered that over and over on your podcast and in your appearances. You're also going to fast from negative thoughts about yourself. In this half side aerial cycle, you're going to keep a little journal and you're going to take notes. You're going to take a, make a check Mark. Every time you say, oh, I need to fill in the blank. I should fill in the blank. Every time you say I ought to, I need to, I should make a note of it. Every, just make a little tick mark. Every time you say you don't dumb, what are you doing? Why did you do that? Make it make a note of it, like quote, unquote, you know, knock it off dummy. You know, this negative self-talk totally changed the way that you talk to yourself and then habits. So there's four pieces to this. The fourth is habit. Are you sitting too much? Are you not exercising enough? Do you smoke? Do you bite your fingernails? Do you rage for no reason at your neighbors? Do you snap at coworkers or staff members? In this period you're going to totally fast from media, from bad food, from bad thoughts and from negative habits. Keep track of it, make a note in, so the next question is, well, the one, what do I do instead? Well, you do the things that really, you enjoy. You play cards with your friends, you play guitar, you read books, you meditate, you go for walks. You do everything else that our ancestors and their ancestors before them did, which is to reconnect to simplify. You will find the first three days are a nightmare. They suck. It's hard. It's could be the sugar, you know, could be the caffeine, you're not on, it could be the media. You're going to be challenging for sure, three days in, around the fourth day, typically it gets easier for people. They're like, oh, well, I'm actually feel like I'm sleeping. Really good. Holy crap. I got the best night's sleep than I've had in 10 years, day four, day six, day seven. You begin to feel more creative. Maybe you want to write a poem. Maybe I want to play music. Maybe I want to, you know, go stack rocks in my backyard, go, you know, whatever, keep with it, keep with it. Keep close track of your habits in this half side aerial cycle. And then at the full moon, that's when it ends. At the full moon, on the night of the full moon, you're going to make some decisions, some agreements with yourself to decide what you will choose to put back in with conscious choice and awareness. What am I going to consciously go back to? Am I going to go back to Netflix? Or Am I going to quit my subscription? Am I going to choose to have a glass of wine on the next day after the full moon or not? Am I going to have a cookie or not? Am I going to rage at my employees or bite my fingernails or not? Am I going to go back to these negative thoughts that I have or not? What you will find is when you give yourself, this was kind of based on this sort of diet prior to the Ayahuasca ceremony, you're going to feel like a kid again, you're going to feel youthful and creative and happy go lucky, once you get through that first phase of it, all of these little markers that you are giving to yourself, all of these dopamine hits that you're so used to just like activating all day long into the nighttime are going to make way for a lot more quiet, a lot more stillness, a lot more space and out, you're going to be outside more, you're going to be having more fun. And then from that day forward and this has happened with so many of my coaching clients. It's like, they let go of a ton of stuff that they know is not serving them. But instead of like, oh my coach, you know, my life coach told me to quit doing this stuff. It's like, no, this isn't me. You are making this conscious choice to go back to this stuff. If you do and it's and you get to pay the consequences, if you're going to go back to glasses of wine or raging, then it's a choice. And you know, that it's a choice. And that is a huge distinction between trying you knowa cleanse or something. And I like cleanses, cleanses are awesome. But when you are making this conscious choice and you're leveraging the power of the moon, you know, you probably know more about the moon than I do Wade. You know, there is this massive energetic awareness that our ancestors, you can hunt when the Moonlightyou could stay up later, you could see better at night. He was more active, you know, that full moon ceremony that you did with the water. Like, there's a reason for that, why it's done because the energies are higher because, you know, there's the gravitational pull and the moon is an important, you know, archetype for us. So I don't know how does that strike you? Does that sound…

 Wade Lightheart: Right? I think it's something that I think people, it's worthwhile experimenting. Cause here's the thing, all that media that comes in, it's not going away. You can go away from it from a little bit. I want to ask a couple of quick questions of it before we wrap up. Just in regards to that. So, cause I can hear what people are going to say. Well, Sean, Wade, you know, Hey guysI need to interact on zoom or I need to interact on media as part of my job or part of my performance. How do I navigate that if I'm doing a fast, so is it just, I can put the output that I need, but not being the input or how do you deal with that?

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. I mean, all non-essential media use, you just let go of you just stop, right? If you need to be on a zoom call for work, be on a zoom call for work. If you can help it and plan ahead a little bit to reduce some of those engagements for that two week period, it's going to help immensely. Right?

 Wade Lightheart: What about music? Cause music can be extremely stimulating. So…

 Sean McCormick: That's a good question. A lot of people ask that. I say, nobecause you're going to a screen, you have to go to Spotify or Pandora, you know if you've got compact discs or if you've got pre-dawn playlist, it's a slippery slope because…

 Wade Lightheart: You're into that world and now you're hooked, right.

 Sean McCormick: You're hooked, man. They got you. I would make music instead for just for two weeks, you know, everybody's got some instrument laying in their room or house and if you don't go get one, go get a jaw harp or a harmonica and commit to it because it is stimulating. It is dopamine enhancing. And what you're doing is trying to, as much as you possibly can in this modern paradigm, like reduce that. So, no, a lot of people ask that question. What about music? And I just say, just stay away from it, play music.

 Wade Lightheart: Awesome. Any other caveats or integrations around the dopamine full moon fast.

 Sean McCormick: You know, there is something that's sort of adjacent to that this neuro-linguistic programming technique, and I'll kind of go through it really quickly, but it's such a powerful technique. This kind of goes, does go into like the mentality aspect of it and I'll go through, a breeze through it. I invite everybody it's anybody that wants to learn more, just reach out to me and I can show you how to do it. This is called the stop method. And the stop method is a classic neuro-linguistic programming technique that uses a pattern interrupt to rewire your brain away from a nonproductive emotional state to a productive, emotional state. And it works in four parts. And like I said, I'm going to breeze through this, but it's, I've seen it work for so many people. So quick one minute story on how this works. So I had a client who was using this stop method and he was going through divorce, he was divorced, his wife cheated on him. And there was a custody battle for the two boys. And every time he saw her, he would be enraged. He was so frustrated with her. She cheated on him. She's being the custody thing, got nasty. Sohe's like, Sean, I got to do this. I'm just, I'm so angry at her. When I see her, I just get so frustrated. It's affecting all of my life. It's affecting my relationship with my kids and I don't want to talk about their mother, it's really bad news. So we went through the stop method technique together. It takes a couple of weeks to do, in fact, you could integrate it in with this during the full moon reset. And when he was, he wanted to replace the anger that he had with her with something else. He wanted to get past that emotion. So he went through this process and after two weeks he had a classic interaction with her. He was picking up the kids. She was giving the kids to him for the weekend. And she she's like, you're five minutes late, what's your deal? Like, what's your problem? Why are you so late? God get a life. And he's like, I'm sorry, I was stuck behind a truck. You know? I'm going to have, we're going to have great weekend. You know, I won't be late next time, sorry about it. And she's likewhy are you being so weird? And he's like, I'm not being weird. I'm working on not being angry. I mean, I'm putting a lot of time and attention to just not be angry. And I'm choosing not to be angry here with you. And she said like, well, are you stoned? Are you high right now? You're high. Aren't you? Are you smoking dope when you're picking up the kids? And he's like, no, that's not it. I'm not high. I've changed the way that I'm dealing with you. I hope that you can understand that. She's like, I'm going to call your mom. And I'm going to tell her that you're smoking weed before you're picking up the kids and he's like, you don't need to do that. I'm not high. It's all good. I hope you have a great weekend. And then after those typical, you know, she poked and prodded three or four times to try to trigger him because that was their dynamic post divorce with this custody stuff. She's like, well, what is it that you're doing? And he's like it's called the stop method. You know, my life coaches working with me on it. And she's like, well, like you're being weird, but I shouldn't have come at you that hard. I shouldn't have gotten in your face and been such a jerk to you. I apologize. And he was like, he's say he calls me. He gets home. He calls me. He's like, dude, you will not believe the interaction that I just had. I couldn't even feel the anger for her. I was so not angry with her that she didn't know what to do. She freaked out. And so I had to explain to her what I was doing. So here's how the method works. So there's four parts to it. The first part is you're going to actually go to that emotion that you don't want to feel you're going to go there. So in this case for Adam, it was anger. He was angry. So he would get into that place of anger. He would be sitting in a chair, you go to that place. And once you're there and you know, when you're there, you don't have to go. You have to Meijer it or stew in it. But once you know that you're angry, say, okay, I'm angry up there. It is. Okay. Now I feel it. You're going to stand up out of your chair and you're going to say, stop out loud. Once you say stop, then you're going to replace that negative emotion of anger with something else you've worked on ahead of time to replace that anger with. In his case, it was a gratitude, whose gratitude for his kids. That was his anger. His anger was gratitude for his children. Once you've replaced anger with gratitude, then you're going to do something physical to signal to your central nervous system. Oh, he liked this. So for him, it was like he was doing it. He would do a dab. Obviously you want to do this privately. So he would like do the thing. And then he would dab because he just was like the celebration moment for him. You do it over and over and over. You do three sets of 10 reps every day for two weeks. And what it does is it overrides this emotion and what happens for most people after a couple of days, it's hard to even feel the anger because you've done this so many times, you signal to your central nervous system that you don't want to be angry because it's not serving you. The anger that he was having for his wife, wasn't helping his situation. So instead he wanted to feel grateful. And so he had done that enough times that when he was faced with this moment where he was totally triggered and she was poking him and poking him, he just like, I didn't, I wasn't there. I didn't have that urge to be angry. So Coach clients of mine have combined this stock method during the same time where you have the moment of clarity and you're not overstimulated and dopamine crazed to practice this stuff. I've seen it, people who are going through lawsuits, I've seen people who have gone through the death of a loved one. I've seen it with people who around food, people who have like, you know, this like craving that I have around food, that's around them. So I wanted to at least like throw that out there because it's such a useful tool and I sped through it, but it's, it's really effective. And I invite anybody that's curious about it, just to reach out to me and I can explain it more. Again, I have it's part of a course, but I don't have the, I got you know.

 Wade Lightheart: A lot of things, a lot of open loops there. Sean. Where can people reach you find out more about your podcast? Maybe come check out your float tanks. All these cool and optimal.

 Sean McCormick: Yeah. The podcast is optimal performance podcast and you'll find it everywhere, on YouTube too. You can go to my coaching website, which is seanmccormick.Com S E A N M C C O R M I C K. Seanmccormick.Com. And then it's real Sean McCormick on Instagram. That's where the platform that I'm most active on. And yeah I just want to say thank you, Wade for creating a container to have such important conversations. I'm a huge fan of your podcasts. I'm a huge fan of the products, Leaky gut guardian is working for me, my man, it is working for me big time. The mass signs, everybody that I talked to you in health and wellnessgushes over mass signs, the products and the things that you're doing in the world are so cool and so important right now. I just wanted to take a moment to say thank you. And that I honor all the important work and depth. So thank you for being you.

 Wade Lightheart: Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. It means a lot to me, as you know, we're on a mission to end physical suffering and activate, we call biologically optimize health. So there you have it folks from psychedelics dopamine resets, the full moon and floating your way to the next level of your optimal self. I want to thank our guests, Sean McCormick for joining us today in his busy schedule. And for all us listeners out there in digital world, before you hit that detox component, give us a little dopamine hit, send us a like, smash the like button, put up some hate, if you need to, that works too, whatever your feedback is, we appreciate it. We thank you for listening and we hope that this has been valuable for you and to your health. Why not do one of these experiments, try a float tank, maybe find yourself a good shamando a dopamine reset or take time to think about what you might be able to do under these crazy circumstances that we're living in and find the wisdom and direction that will lead you to your best self. I'm Wade Lightheart from BiOptimizers. This is the awesome health podcast. Thanks so much for joining. God Bless!